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View Diary: Islamic State is a threat, so let the neighbors deal with it (142 comments)

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  •  The "Maher Doctrine" (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ColoTim, Tony Situ

    That is to say, let them burn out their blood lust the way European Christians did in the 100 years war.  Then when they are ready to join the 21st century, we can talk to them again.

    -9.00, -5.85
    Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave.

    by Wintermute on Wed Aug 27, 2014 at 11:34:46 AM PDT

    •  I should say "100 years OF war" (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      BYw, capelza

      From about 1520 to roughly a century later.  THE 100 years war was something else.

      -9.00, -5.85
      Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave.

      by Wintermute on Wed Aug 27, 2014 at 11:39:46 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I Beg Your Pardon? (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      ivorybill, Lawrence, Mr MadAsHell, BYw

      Rather genocidal sentiment, would you say??

      PS - As I always say to my students, "Exactly who is 'they' and who is 'we'?"

    •  1914-1945 finally broke Europe (4+ / 0-)
      That is to say, let them burn out their blood lust the way European Christians did in the 100 years war.  Then when they are ready to join the 21st century, we can talk to them again.
      White people were 40% of the world's population (and growing) at the turn of the 20th Century and collectively ruled over pretty much the entire world.  The British alone ruled 1/4th of the Earth's landmass and 1/5th of its population and have invaded/waged war in all but 22 of the world's current countries.

      Then WWI killed, maimed, and PTSDed an entire generation of European men, redrew the map like no war had before it, destroyed four empires, and gave birth to a culture of cynicism and iconoclasm.  Then the Depression came.  Then WWII killed, maimed, and PTSDed another entire generation of European men.

      Domestic politics is the continuation of civil war by other means.

      by Visceral on Wed Aug 27, 2014 at 11:52:30 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  war and suffering isn't what built the peace (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Greyhound, capelza

        if that had been the case, europe would have found peace centuries earlier.

        no, building the peace was what built the peace. it was a conscious project, not some natural consequence of the wars. that, and an american fear of communist revolution in europe, and a rare moment in american sanity WRT foreign policy and economic policy at war's end.

        •  You're right, but the last war did create the (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          wu ming, BYw, capelza

          chance to break the traditional power systems in the formerly Axis nations and imposed some small portion of sanity within the community of nations. WWII broke Europe so badly that change became possible.

          "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." - Voltaire

          by Greyhound on Wed Aug 27, 2014 at 01:12:08 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  first you need an opportunity (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            BYw

            then you need the right people to be in a position to take advantage of it, then they have to make it stick and build institutions that prevent a return of the old system.

            revolutions are very difficult, and rare for this reason. europe really got lucky in the 40s to have everything come together.

      •  In an interesting book by Scott Anderson, (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        capelza

        "Lawrence in Arabia," WWI was also a pivotal time for the Middle East as the European powers, and Standard Oil of New York, maneuvered for influence as the Ottoman Empire was breaking up, while also determining post-WWI borders.  The Middle East was broken long ago, largely by European powers.  The US was late joining the party, but we haven't exactly learned from history.

        "The truest measure of compassion lies not in our service of those on the margins, but in our willingness to see ourselves in kinship with them." Father Gregory Boyle, Homeboy Industries

        by Mr MadAsHell on Wed Aug 27, 2014 at 01:20:22 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Hey I am just quoting the Maher Doctrine (0+ / 0-)

      I didn't invent it.  But the point is that European RELIGIOUS wars were replaced with simple feudal, proto-nationalist, and imperial wars.  Like WW1 as @Visceral pointed out.

      -9.00, -5.85
      Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave.

      by Wintermute on Wed Aug 27, 2014 at 12:02:58 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  this is especially ironic (0+ / 0-)

      given the actions of america in that part of the world in the end of the 20th and beginning of the 21st century. so civilized and free of bloodlust, we were.

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