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View Diary: Russia Is Invading Ukraine (544 comments)

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  •  asdf (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    protectspice, Pluto

    Will it change your mind when it turns out there was no invasion?

    don't drone me, bro

    by BradMajors on Thu Aug 28, 2014 at 11:59:32 AM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  By this time next week (3+ / 0-)

      …these hyserics will do it all over again about another country they can't find on a map -- whipped up by the Anglo media that has them in a trance.

    •  If there's no invasion and no long term attempt (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      at land grab, then yes it would. However, I remain very skeptical that that is what is going to happen and I don't think it's improbable that an invasion is indeed happening. I frankly don't see how you could think it improbable.

      •  This is reality: (4+ / 0-)

        Russia does NOT want Ukraine. Has never wanted Ukraine. Russia will never annex Ukraine. Except in USians brain-damaged fever dreams for war.

        It is my great hope that everyone here who is writhing in Ruskie-fear, will check in for a brain scan -- after this is all over. There is apparently something physically wrong with people who are so easily yanked around by media bullshit -- while reality on the ground says the complete opposite.

        You deserve a healthier and happier life.

        This nation needs no more Vietnams and Iraqs -- which were caused by the same exact brain defect among the general population.

        •  How does lying about Russia stop next Vietnam? (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          charlatan, cryonaut, Timaeus, kefauver

          This is the part that makes me wonder.  How is it that somehow being in favor of Russian expansion and being against facts stop wars?  It doesn't, of course; it encourages it.  

          It doesn't even stop US involvement, which is not wanted by anyone even without today's RT propaganda.  We KNOW what Russia is doing and still don't want a war.  

          So give it a fucking rest.  You're making an ass of yourself.

          Someone actually admitted on DK, "Yes. If it pisses you and the other Greenwald-Tweet-pearl-clutchers off, it's smart." Wow.

          by Inland on Thu Aug 28, 2014 at 01:43:51 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Gather 'round, ladies and gents: (15+ / 0-)

          I want to use this comment as a teachable moment in the difference between truth and what Colbert rightly called "truthiness":

          Russia does NOT want Ukraine. Has never wanted Ukraine. Russia will never annex Ukraine. Except in USians brain-damaged fever dreams for war.
          It sounds so good, doesn't it? It's almost like there isn't a term in Russia for this very issue - "the Ukrainian Question" [украинский вопрос] - and it doesn't recur regularly in Russian political discussions, though it probably peaked in 2004-5, when 70% of Russians supported absorbing Ukraine into a single state with Russia. (APN did a good summary of the debate over annexing Ukraine here).

          Why 2004-5? A few reasons: first and foremost, it was the 350th anniversary of what Russian (but not Ukrainian) scholars call "the reuinification of Ukraine with Russia", nudge, nudge. 2005 saw the (new) Yalta conference with Putin discussing the historical fate of Ukraine; and by this point Russians were aglow with optimism about a potential full merger with Belarus, rather than just the closer economic/political ties. The interest in reunifying Ukraine into Russia was a serious enough discussion that the Duma committee on International Affairs under Dmitri Rogozin had to dance around the question ("Such prospects... do exist.")

          Given the way the later 2000s panned out, it's fully understandable why Russian attentions shifted toward the creation of an EU-like mechanism for former Soviet states, albeit one, in Rogozin's words, with a more tightly organized infrastructure. Putin, of course, has always been more laconic about this issue, but that's typical of Putin's politics: he's laconic about most things (except when he drops terms like "New Russia" into his discussions of Eastern Ukraine, which happens to be one of those reunification slogans.) Remember also that Putin acknowledged after the fact to sending more troops to Crimea "to ensure that the referendum was conducted in an open, honest, and decent way" (his words), so there's adequate reason to take his comments with a few grains of salt.

          Now: it's for you, individual readers, to decide for yourselves how serious you consider these discussions, whether they should be given any weight or relevance in the current debate, etc. It may very be you think this is exaggerated and not worthy of your time. But at least you're armed with information now, instead of the typically empty, inaccurate sloganeering that Pluto has been pouring out on this issue.

          Saint, n. A dead sinner revised and edited. - Ambrose Bierce

          by pico on Thu Aug 28, 2014 at 01:51:15 PM PDT

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        •  There are no US troops in Baghdad (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          Nice to know Baghdad Bob is posting here.

          "NO", snapped Mr al-Sahaf, "We have retaken the airport. There are NO Americans there. I will take you there and show you. IN ONE HOUR!"

          "Iraqi fighters in Umm Qasr are giving the hordes of American and Brtish mercenaries the taste of definite death. We have drawn them into a quagmire and they will never get out of it."

          When we stop putting leaders from the past up on pedestals and ignoring their flaws, we can start seeing our present leaders for what they really are.

          by PhillyJeff on Thu Aug 28, 2014 at 02:04:59 PM PDT

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        •  Brain scan? (0+ / 0-)

          That should be HR'd.

          Pluto has launched several HRable comments here.

          NOBODY is talking about Russia annexing all of Ukraine.

          Russia illegally captured Crimea and is now illegally capturing a land bridge to Crimea.

          Deny all you want, the facts speak for themselves.

          Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood.--Lu Xun
          Support the BDS

          by Timaeus on Thu Aug 28, 2014 at 04:50:59 PM PDT

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        •  I can't believe they'll take this "invasion" (0+ / 0-)

          much farther than they've already taken it. An all-out Russian occupation would have every breathing Ukrainian taking up arms to emulate their grandfather's resistance against the Soviets. It'd be a f'n bloodbath and one consistent element about Putin's aggression seems to be he wants to do it at minimal cost.


          Even the most reluctant European nations have signaled they'd bite the bullet and lay down HARSH sanctions that would damage themselves significantly in that scenario.

          Combine that death toll with severe economic shocks and it'd be a recipe for Putin losing his grip on power in the Motherland. He is NOT stupid imho. People don't understand....Hitler was very much stupid.

          "See? I'm not a racist! I have a black friend!"

          by TheHalfrican on Fri Aug 29, 2014 at 03:52:09 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  There's been an ongoing invasion since (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Dr Swig Mcjigger, charlatan

      February.  It's really strange to keep encountering people who deny that.

      Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood.--Lu Xun
      Support the BDS

      by Timaeus on Thu Aug 28, 2014 at 01:01:14 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

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