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View Diary: St. Paul police violently arrest a black man for sitting on bench, waiting for his children (VIDEO) (634 comments)

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  •  Police are out of control (48+ / 0-)

    no wonder the charges were dropped.  This is just another example of how we get slave labor in the United States.  If this guy can get arrested for waiting for his kids, what will happen when they start coming for non blacks or browns?  We should make the Roberts court watch and listen to this shit over and over again and then tell us we do not have a race problem here in America.

    Vote to get the bastards in control out.

    •  I agree with Jasan ... (11+ / 0-)

      there is no question that this is sick, disgusting, and unlawful. It puts a large lump in my gut.

      Can someone please tell me what effective actions I can take? Because, as Jasan says, they will come after every race and color next. With the police, it is always us vs. them.

      Good Lord, I hope I don't sound like a conspiracy-spewing RWNJ!!

      •  CT? (3+ / 0-)
        With the police, it is always us vs. them.

        Good Lord, I hope I don't sound like a conspiracy-spewing RWNJ!!

        It's not CT if it's really happening.

        That's DK-speak for "it's not paranoia if they're really out to get you".

        And the police are really out to get you. No matter who you are.

        "I have to remember that while Jesus dined with publicans, there is no record of his consorting with Republicans." -- entlord

        by thanatokephaloides on Thu Aug 28, 2014 at 02:51:03 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Take Classes (0+ / 0-)

        Take some self-defense courses, make sure you know your local laws, and don't be afraid to lever whatever force you have to in order to safely escape. You absolutely do not want to give a rogue cop control of any situation.

        Don't make the same mistake Atticus did and believe our justice system will ultimately make everything alright because it won't.

    •  I think the percentage of dropped charges to (27+ / 0-)

      arrests should be a tracked and published number that is used in the evaluation of a police department's professionalism and effectiveness. That percentage getting high is an indication, to me, that cops are arresting people whether it is really warranted or not.

    •  so, jasan -- the GEE O PEE bastards in control (2+ / 0-)

      of the House and so many States (including Northern or as the righteous here prefer to term them Union / original States), or whom?

      For instance, listen to this GEE O PEE ucker's ad.

      www.youtube.com/watch?v=Te8axb9N8uU

      This state senate wannabe tells so many lies it's emetic.

      LBJ, Lady Bird, Van Cliburn, Steve Earle, Ann Richards, Barbara Jordan, Molly Ivins, Jim Hightower, Sully Sullenburger, Drew Brees: Texas is NO Bush League!

      by BlackSheep1 on Thu Aug 28, 2014 at 02:39:30 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  What a piece of work the church deacon is (0+ / 0-)

        clearly this is a fight for the liberties of all.  When I say all, I mean all.   Why can't there be a Black candidate with a message of promise for the people (we had one and he is now in the highest office in the land) at local levels?  That is where it starts.  Bring out the support in the minority communities for someone who is more like them than like this church deacon tea party butthead.  We start in your district and move on up.  I am sure you know of a qualified person that would represent the values you hold dear for yourself and your family.  If you do not know someone, find them and lets get this shit together.

        •  He's not running (thank FSM, Ceiling Cat, (0+ / 0-)

          & all the gods) in the district where I live. Missed me by about half a mile.

          The best of the guys running against him is a 90-year-old Texas Lege veteran -- who's in the hospital tonight in critical condition, cause not yet revealed.

          LBJ, Lady Bird, Van Cliburn, Steve Earle, Ann Richards, Barbara Jordan, Molly Ivins, Jim Hightower, Sully Sullenburger, Drew Brees: Texas is NO Bush League!

          by BlackSheep1 on Mon Sep 01, 2014 at 07:04:55 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  what will happen? (6+ / 0-)
      If this guy can get arrested for waiting for his kids, what will happen when they start coming for non blacks or browns?
      And I can personally attest that's happening.

      I'm not black, and I've been harrassed by police (and wannabe rent-a-pigs) for existing without owning and using an automobile. For breathing while non-affluent.

      (I consider that part of my DFH credentials!   :-)

      "I have to remember that while Jesus dined with publicans, there is no record of his consorting with Republicans." -- entlord

      by thanatokephaloides on Thu Aug 28, 2014 at 02:48:44 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  True (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        thanatokephaloides

        My friend, a 29 year old white woman, was stopped and questioned by police the other day for walking outside. I'm not joking. She was walking to the store to buy cigarettes in the early afternoon on a weekday, and they questioned why she was walking. Asked why she wasn't driving, if she was drunk or on drugs. Started asking her if she was selling drugs.

        Have another friend, white guy around the same age, was stopped and questioned by cops for walking down the sidewalk in a residential area adjacent to a road with lots of bars and restaurants (he'd parked there). He lives in the next county over and they were pressing him about why he was so far from home and what he was doing in the neighborhood. Hassled him for a few minutes before letting him continue.

    •  In fact, he's lucky the charges were dropped. (0+ / 0-)
      no wonder the charges were dropped
      The prosecutor's office must be either quite liberal-minded too overburdened to want to haggle over cases as small-time as this.

      In most locales in the U.S., he would have been so fortunate. I'm not saying it's right or just, but in fact, the police DO have the authority to demand ID from anyone for any reason. There's only the barest requirement of a pretext: simply being a "person of interest" or even just walking down the street in a "high-crime area" or "furtive movement" or abusiness complaining about a "loiterer" is all they need to stop a person. The power to make such stops was established by the Supreme Court in Terry v. Ohio (1968). The authority to demand ID was upheld in Hiibel v. 6th Judicial Court of Nevada (2004), in which the court ruled that a person's refusal to identify himself upon police demand constitutes per se an arrestable offense. Not all states have "must ID" laws, but in this decision the court effectively ruled those laws constitutional.

      Whatever the legalities & jurisprudence, the "facts on the ground" are thus. If a person disobeys, disrespects, talks back at, curses at, or fails to show deference to a police officer, he/she will be arrested for disorderly conduct. Once placed under arrest, if the person does not comply immediately, he/she will be charged with resisting arrest, while the officers have the authority to use whatever force they deem necessary to subdue & apprehend the person. If the person fights back or so much as lays a finger on an officer in response, he/she will be charged with assaulting a police officer, a felony that will almost certainly result in a jail sentence.

      Typically, the justice system treats such cases with disdain & dispatch. It's almost impossible to win acquittal on charges such as these.

      Police have virtual impunity for anything they do in the course of their work. Their authority over individuals is absolute. That's the country we live in.

      •  Good cite to know...but wait a second (0+ / 0-)

        The distinction seems to be that one is required to state a name, but does not compel any other answers. So the police literally can legally arrest someone even if you answer with your name. It's a catch 22, right?

        "Catch-22" is "a problematic situation for which the only solution is denied by a circumstance inherent in the problem or by a rule."

        “In this case petitioner’s refusal to disclose his name was not based on any articulated real and appreciable fear that his name would be used to incriminate him.... As best we can tell, petitioner refused to identify himself only because he thought his name was none of the officer’s business.″ — 542 U.S. 177, at 190

        The police don't first have to articulate a reasonable suspicion of criminal involvement before asking.

        So what this means is the police can infer you're hiding behind the Fifth Amendment therefore you must be guilty of whatever they want to assert if you don't state your name.  Bingo, you're arrested.

        But Chris Lollie lives in Minnesota, which is not one of the stop and identify states.

        Hiibel v. Sixth Judicial District Court of Nevada, 542 U.S. 177 (2004) held that statutes requiring suspects to disclose their names during police investigations did not violate the Fourth Amendment if the statute first required reasonable and articulable suspicion of criminal involvement.
        ...
         Nevada has a “stop-and-identify” law that allows a police officer to detain any person he encounters “under circumstances which reasonably indicate that the person has committed, is committing or is about to commit a crime” [in plain English: the police can make up anything they want]; the person may be detained only to “ascertain his identity and the suspicious circumstances surrounding his presence abroad.” In turn, the law requires the person detained to “identify himself”, but does not compel the person to answer any other questions put to him by the officer. The Nevada Supreme Court has interpreted that “identify himself” to mean to merely state his name. As of April 2008, 23 other states[2] have similar laws.
        http://en.wikipedia.org/...

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