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View Diary: Kristof: "When Whites Just Don’t Get It" (70 comments)

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  •  no, it's the largest part of it. (16+ / 0-)
    I think the challenge is the 'bottom' of the economic/societal ladder has been so crowded out over the past 20 years.
    For African-Americans, there has been an economic crisis for decades and decades. Even during the postwar boom.

    But there was no problem because white people weren't affected. It's only now, when white people are finally suffering in large numbers, that suddenly people discover there's a problem.

    Here in Southern California, it's obvious that there has also been a "crowding out" effect from high-achieving immigrant groups (for example, in terms of University of California admissions).  
    Seventy-eighty years ago, it was Jews who were the "high-achieving immigrant group" that was "crowding out" WASP Americans from our universities. And there were laws to keep them out and to make sure that good old WASP boys got the plum positions at the best schools.

    But Jewish Americans weren't deterred by those barriers, and now they have entered the American elite in large numbers.

    The unfortunate fact of the matter is that white privilege is built into our institutions, because WASP males deliberately created them to be exclusionary of those who were not WASPs.

    WASP males came to this country, wiped out the natives and took their land, imported African slave labor to do all the work of raising and picking crops, Chinese coolies to build the railroads, non-Anglo Europeans to work in the factories, and when slavery was finally outlawed (a decision that had more to do with the superiority of the Northern economic system than with enlightenment on race), they brought in Mexican workers to do the raising and picking.

    All their institutions--schools, government, religious, private companies, everything--was purposely designed so that only the ruling caste could taste the fruits of the outcastes' labors.

    Therefore, any attempt to extend the scope of the promises of the Declaration of Independence so that they apply to non-WASPs has been a deeply subversive act. Every minority in America is aware that any attempt to better their lot and win a place in the institutions that WASPs created will be met with resistance, because it will be considered subversive, a form of terrorism.

    America is an apartheid state. Blatant forms of apartheid like separate water fountains drew too much bad PR during the 60s, and were replaced by ghettoization, gentrification, and the war on drugs--subtler ways of targeting undesired minorities without being overtly racist. And so it remains today.

    It's demography that's finally undermining the stranglehold of the WASP ruling caste. WASPs are no longer a majority, only a plurality. A black man sits in the White House. And not surprisingly, they're freaking out about it.

    The Open Carry movement, George Bundy, George Zimmerman, Darren Wilson, the teabaggers--these are the faces of the angry WASP counter-revolution that is willing to resort to open violence and terrorism to maintain its power.

    A dynasty that has ruled unchallenged for over 220 years is not going to go gently into that good night. It won't be pretty.

    "In America, the law is king." --Thomas Paine

    by limpidglass on Sat Aug 30, 2014 at 02:08:53 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  Also "Globalization" (4+ / 0-)

      University of California/UCLA admissions (2014):
      38% Asian-American, 27% White (Non-Latino), 26% Latino, 5% African-American.  That's the future elite of California there, and it's clear who is being left behind.

      http://uclafacultyassociation.blogspot.com/...

      It's a more complex set of issues at play - and the "globalization" (of both America, and global economic competition where jobs are shipped overseas) seems to be hitting unevenly.

      •  The UCLA admissions reflect the population of CA (0+ / 0-)

        Obviously with the Asian over achievers being over represented.

        Same thing with Harvard reflecting out demographics as a country again with the Asian over achievers doing so well.
        African American 12%, Asian American 20%, Hispanic or Latino 13%.

        https://college.harvard.edu/...

        •  Wtf? (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          alivingston

          Are you seriously bagging on Asians for being "over achievers"? Wtf is over achieving? Why wouldn't you think the problem is under achievers? Similarly, if Asians, or even Jews or gays for that matter, are able to achieve; or in your estimate "over achieve" wtf excuse does anyone else have for their life's shortcomings?

          •  Not at all (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            darest

            Its very inspiring how well Asians have done. Tiger moms should be emulated.

            •  Please pardon my reaction then (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              boydscott81

              I just see how people can be so absurd. Reading all these posts and seeing all this media that assigns blame for all black suffering to white imposed systemic racism. How can a multicultural entity such as the police really be mounting a cohesive campaign to murder and oppress black people? How on earth could somebody logically subscribe to that idea. Even your Harvard numbers show that black scholars are enjoying a huge leg up in admissions over white people. How could that be if the white overlords are conspiring against them? And again, if this institutionalized hate is really such an impossible hurdle for blacks to get over, how is it that the Asians, Jews and gays managed to achieve? I really think it's time for some personal responsibility here. I want this shit to stop for real and blaming white people and cops isn't gonna change jack squat. All you posters pandering to black people and telling them what victims they are and how impossible there situation is, your the worst oppressors of all. Your enablers perpetuating disheartening hopelessness or at best a viable excuse to take no sincere action. Sincere action doesn't entail burning down your neighborhoods, committing crime sprees or goading police into manhandling you. Sincere action is voting, lobbying, working hard for a good education, mentoring your youth, cooperating with jaw enforcement to get rid of crime and gang influence in your neighborhoods, condemning black on black violence.... Seriously!!! Anything but blaming other people for your problems and expecting them to fix it. It isn't the Jews fault that everyone keeps enslaving, banishing or trying to extinguish them. But they didn't spend a century whining about how it wasn't fair and demanding Germany fix their lives for them. 70 years later they have one of the strongest nations on the planet. Good on them. Shame on all you who are just trying to prove how not racist you are. Your propagating hopelessness and a victims mindset amongst a people who need to be cognizant of their strengths, opportunities and feel inspiration or rather obligation to change their own lives.

              Sry, zezef. I got a bit off course on that tangent. Were agreed. Gj Asians.

              •  "Personal responsibility"?? So a grown man stal... (0+ / 0-)

                "Personal responsibility"??

                So a grown man stalks a child and shoots him dead but now the child is being lectured about personal responsibility. What would you have Trayvon Martin do differently that night to satisfy your quest for "personal responsibility".

                •  Yes, personal responsibility (0+ / 0-)

                  I guess I would have him not get in a physical fight and if he were being stalked or felt threatened he should have called the police. Also, Trayvon is not really applicable to what I was saying. The topic was about systemic oppression of black people implemented by white people and motivated by racism. I was refuting that. Your isolated incident doesn't really speak to either point. Zimmerman was not part of the system. He's not a cop (nor white for that matter). Also, police did arrest him and charge him. The jury of his peers found him innocent. You probably also don't know that Zimmerman was arrested by police in ferguson. That's right, the racist force of oppression in Ferguson arrested Zimmerman.

                  Even though Trayvon is a horrible example of your point I'm sure you could scour the archives and find an example of a black person being victimized by a white member of the institution by no fault of their own. However, I'm not talking about any specific case. I'm talking about a general ideology. I don't even think it's necissarily the majority of black people but it's a significant enough of a contingent to adversely effect the black community as a whole.

                  It takes two to tango and the attitudes of the African American community is clearly playing a role in perpetuating the hardships they endure.

                  •  sorry, but I am going to object (0+ / 0-)

                    you are still very much in the mindset of blame the victim

                    I suggest if you want to advocate that particular point of view you have the guts to post it as its own diary so more people will see what you advocate.

                    "My religion is kindness." - His Holiness the 14th Dalai Lama

                    by teacherken on Mon Sep 01, 2014 at 06:40:36 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Np (0+ / 0-)

                      I appreciate that you maintain a civil tone. We don't have to agree but respectful conversation is important if real solutions are going to be garnered. As for your suggestion, I'm already working on it. I'm sure it's gonna illicit loads of disrespectful responses from people. However, this is an important issue to me so I'll deal with the repercussions. I'm looking for a real solution here; not using this situation as a platform to distinguish myself from the spectrum of white guilt. I sincerely feel that perpetuating a victim mentality and recusing the black community from any ownness for its state of being is one of the major contributing factors to its real plight. Ponder my words homey. They are coming from the right place. I understand your knee jerk reaction and conformity to the status quo of this site but I think with objective contemplation you'll see where I'm coming from. If not, so be it. When I do publish my diary it only has to reach a few people or affirm someone who is buckling to the pressures of the screamers on this site.

                      •  boy you don't know when to stop digging (0+ / 0-)

                        the hole you are already in

                        I quote "I understand your knee jerk reaction and conformity to the status quo of this site"

                        so because I disagree with you my reaction is knee jerk and conformity?  

                        Boy are you dense.

                        "My religion is kindness." - His Holiness the 14th Dalai Lama

                        by teacherken on Tue Sep 02, 2014 at 01:45:24 AM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  Dense? (0+ / 0-)

                          "Insults are the lady refuge of the out-argued"

                          •  boy are you deluded (0+ / 0-)

                            you assume I was arguing with you  -  I was not

                            you assume that you have the better of every exchange you make here - in general you lose them all

                            that is why you are dense.  Or if you prefer, you are deluding yourself.

                            Have fun in your illusions.  Or if you prefer, delusions.  Because of them I will henceforth simply ignore you.

                            "My religion is kindness." - His Holiness the 14th Dalai Lama

                            by teacherken on Wed Sep 03, 2014 at 07:50:35 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Ignore away (0+ / 0-)

                            Doesn't appear you are capable of listening objectively anyhow. Calling someone dense because you don't agree with them but have no way to articulate why.... I'm sure that's what the Dalai Lama would do too.

      •  I don't think it's clear (0+ / 0-)

        What your saying should be clear but I'm not sure if it is to anyone on this site (including possibly you). Those stats show that the white (non-Latino) population is being discriminated against. Obviously the Asians are killing it but even the African American admissions your quoting demonstrate a 10% higher enrollment rate than their white (non-Hispanic) counterparts. I'm basing those numbers off of your posted enrollment rates and their respective population percentages in California. So... As long as you were trying to say that white people are being left behind, then yes, it should be obvious. I'm just not sure that's how people are interpreting the numbers you posted. Btw, the census differentiates whites and Hispanics which are quite often racially the same. If you calculate in the white Hispanics you are looking at some pretty gross statistics in regards to discrimination against white people.

        •  That's Ridiculous (0+ / 0-)

          African-Americans are 7% of the California population and 13% of the U.S. population (per the Census Bureau).   So they are under-represented at UCLA - period, end of story.  

          I'm not claiming whites are being 'discriminated against' - that's ridiculous.

          •  As I supposed (0+ / 0-)

            Your math is severely flawed then. If your point was that black people are being discriminated against because they are under represented by admissions at UCLA I'd see that as a plausible argument. However, there is an even larger gap in representation of the white population in UCLA admissions. By the California census numbers, black people enjoy a ten percent higher admissions rate than white people. How could the numbers you published be evidence of black oppression but the same statistical principle you laud doesn't apply to white people? If we go by national statistics (which would assume that almost all UCLA students are from other states) the numbers would be even worse in respect to demonstrating a racial bias against white people.

            Either your saying that your original argument is flawed or you need to admit your data shows white people are being discriminated against. That's just the mathematical facts. You can't have it both ways.

            •  Age-Adjust the Data (0+ / 0-)

              The white population is also older with fewer children.  

              26% of the K-12 California public school population is White non-Hispanic.  That matches almost exactly with their University of California enrollment - i.e. they are not being 'discriminated against'.

              The remainder of the demographics are: 52% Latino, 7% African-American, 11% Asian (including Filipino, which they count separately).

              Again, I was never claiming white people were being 'discriminated against' - and the data shows they aren't either.

              •  Lies, damn lies and statistics (0+ / 0-)

                Well, if your gonna start splitting hairs to pervert the stats to conform with your opinion there's a few more factors that I can add to the equation.

                1) you need to account for private schools which make up over 7 percent of California's k-12 population. So, go ahead and add a minimum of 3% to your 26%.

                2) As you said the white (non-Hispanic) population is older. But that trend is bottom heavy. Your lowest ratio of white to minority population is in kindergarten. It's not near as severe as you proceed up to the graduating class of 2014. So, go ahead and add a couple more percentage points to your 29%. Let's say, conservatively 2%? How bout just 1%?

                3) 52% is Hispanic but Hispanic is not a race. It just means the person has roots in a Spanish speaking culture or is from Latin America. 53% of Hispanics are classified as white. So, go ahead and add another 25%. But let's just go with a much more conservative estimate than the census and say 10%. Where we at? 40%?

                4) you also don't account for dropout rates but lets just not even bother to consider that.

                Even with these absurdly low estimates, the white population is grossly underrepresented in the UCLA admissions and it's a far greater disparity than the black admissions.

                So, it wasn't what you intended to say but the numbers clearly show whites are being deprived in the educational institution of UCLA. Those are the numbers at a ludicrous minimum. You can disagree out of hard-nosed principle but then who's being "ridiculous"?

    •  Very good analysis. (4+ / 0-)

      But I question this to a certain extent --

      The Open Carry movement, George Bundy, George Zimmerman, Darren Wilson, the teabaggers--these are the faces of the angry WASP counter-revolution that is willing to resort to open violence and terrorism to maintain its power.

      A dynasty that has ruled unchallenged for over 220 years is not going to go gently into that good night. It won't be pretty.

      -- because the tools of violence that those people have are not really that effective to make any real change.

      People like Zimmerman, Wilson, most T-baggers... those people are only better off than the African-Americans they hate by a degree...and they have only as much as the real ruling elite in this country allow them to have.

      Sure, Wall Street and the Koch brothers let them have enough so that they can look down on others, but if they start looking up, they will see how far behind they really are, compared to 30-40 years ago.

      A gun isn't going to make their lives better, though it may certainly make someone else's life worse. They just don't understand who their real enemy is.

      For many, it's the name on the ballot they choose over and over again.

      "I think in America, the opposite of poverty is justice." Bryan Stevenson

      by gfre on Sat Aug 30, 2014 at 02:33:22 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  1964, Bob Dylan. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Denise Oliver Velez, gfre

        Only a Pawn in their game about how poor whites were co-opted from the formerly Democratic "Solid South":

        He's taught in his school from the start by the rule
        That the laws are with him to protect his white skin
        To keep up his hate so he never thinks straight
        'Bout the shape that he's in,
        but it ain't him to blame
        He's only a pawn in their game
        That's about the time the GOP began its hateful, racist Southern Strategy.

        Disgusting.

        "Let each unique song be sung and the spell of differentiation be broken" - Winter Rabbit

        by cotterperson on Sat Aug 30, 2014 at 08:22:32 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

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