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View Diary: My Response to David Harris Gershon (431 comments)

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  •  Or alternatively (7+ / 0-)

    1. He believes what he is saying; and/or
    2. His view reflect the views of his district.

    •  Or just see the hard data above from skohayes (12+ / 0-)

      "Ferguson proves melanin is like catnip for bad cops; the more of this pigment one has, the more it attracts pigs." - pajoly

      by pajoly on Tue Sep 02, 2014 at 10:01:47 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  The fact that he's received donations from those (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        JNEREBEL, AoT, Mannie, Kane in CA

        who share his views does not mean that his views were motivated by those donations.

        •  True; maybe he's being rewarded (11+ / 0-)

          for convictions he already had.

          Not that that makes me feel any better.

          Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

          by corvo on Tue Sep 02, 2014 at 10:35:53 AM PDT

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        •  That's true (10+ / 0-)

          But that doesn't make all these political donations irrelevant, now, does it? I mean, would you say that about all the various politicians that the Koch brothers own?

          "As the madmen play on words, and make us all dance to their song / to the tune of starving millions, to make a better kind of gun..." -- Iron Maiden

          by Lost Left Coaster on Tue Sep 02, 2014 at 10:45:36 AM PDT

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          •  As long as a majority of Americans support (7+ / 0-)

            Israel, and they do, then politicians are not going to support Palestinians. That's how our country works.

            My preferred pronoun is 'They', what's yours?

            by AoT on Tue Sep 02, 2014 at 11:07:44 AM PDT

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            •  "support Isreal" is like saying they support (6+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              cal2010, Smoh, corvo, poco, Assaf, capelza

              "clean water." It is muscle memory from being raised Americans. That is all. Ask poll questions in another way, and leave out the country name, and a plurality would call the unnamed country a terrorist state.

              "Ferguson proves melanin is like catnip for bad cops; the more of this pigment one has, the more it attracts pigs." - pajoly

              by pajoly on Tue Sep 02, 2014 at 11:28:24 AM PDT

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              •  Which doesn't change the fact (9+ / 0-)

                that people do in fact support Israel. I know that it is because of racism and propaganda that support is so high for Israel, but me knowing that doesn't change the level of support for Israel in the US. We have a long row to hoe in terms of changing public opinion on this issue, that's the reality. Blinding ourselves to that reality by pointing at Israeli propaganda doesn't help.

                Muscle memory is an incredibly powerful thing, and not something easily overcome. In fact, if every American had a well thought out and well researched position on the subject then it wouldn't be that hard to sway public opinion.

                My preferred pronoun is 'They', what's yours?

                by AoT on Tue Sep 02, 2014 at 11:31:59 AM PDT

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                •  Propaganda? (0+ / 0-)

                  They support Israel for various reasons, most recently because they're fighting against a declared terrorist organization.  That's the truth, not propaganda.  It's not racism either as everyone is pretty much the same color over there.   Israel happens to have much luck in who her enemies are.

                  •  Anti-Arab racism is a reality (9+ / 0-)

                    you can pretend otherwise all you want but it's true. The propaganda is about how this is all about fighting terrorists and how stealing land is really self defense.

                    Israel is constantly going on about how it's a western democracy and everyone else in the region is backwards and oppressive. The dog whistles are pretty damn clear. One of them is the constant reference to Israel's enemies as "terrorists," which Israel has done as long as I can remember even though it's not just Hamas Israel is fighting. Israel has attacked Palestinians in the West Bank again and again and now has stolen more land.

                    The terrorism is in response to Israel's actions, not the cause of them. The fact that Israel has been stealing land since before Hamas existed shows that pretty clearly.

                    My preferred pronoun is 'They', what's yours?

                    by AoT on Tue Sep 02, 2014 at 12:14:58 PM PDT

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                    •  Good luck with that argument (0+ / 0-)

                      Especially on a day some Arab asshole (since you insist this is anti-Arab racism and not anti-terrorist) cut off another American's head.  Good luck trying to convince Americans how misunderstood they are and  how it's all Israel's fault.

                      Your problem is that most Americans don't give a shit about the differences between hamas, hezbollah, islamic jihad, isis, al queda - they all have a couple of things in common and none of them good for the US.  Your other other problem is thinking DK in any way represents Americans or the Democratic party when in reality it's a very tiny, very vocal minority.

                      •  And you're right, most Americans (7+ / 0-)

                        don't give a shit about the differences between different groups of Arabs, that's part of the racism. And I'm not making the argument to change people's mind, I'm pointing out reality. You can ignore that reality, but it doesn't change it.

                        Your other other problem is thinking DK in any way represents Americans or the Democratic party when in reality it's a very tiny, very vocal minority.
                        Your problem is that you make shit up about people and pretend they believe it. I never said that DailyKos is representative of the rest of the country, never. And I've regularly said the reason politicians support Israel is because there's broad support among the public. I'm merely pointing out one of the reasons for that support.

                        I see how Arabs are portrayed in all media in the US. They are consistently portrayed as large mobs of angry people. You seem to think that Americans magically aren't racist against Arabs. Why do you think people swallowed the war in Iraq?

                        And of course, supporting Israel doesn't mean standing against terrorism, it means supporting it. Americans don't recognize that because Israel is seen as being a "western democracy" in spite of the brutal discrimination against Arabs.

                        My preferred pronoun is 'They', what's yours?

                        by AoT on Tue Sep 02, 2014 at 01:42:52 PM PDT

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                        •  Are you calling (0+ / 0-)

                          Israel as terrorist country?

                          If you haven't seen diary after diary these past couple of weeks claiming "the tide is turning" and now people don't support Israel, you've got your  head in the sand.  

                          You can blame the American people all you want - they only have to open up a newspaper to see that precisely ZERO Muslim countries have spoken out about isis (when they have more to fear from them than anyone).  Not one leader of  Muslim country has shown the slightest bit of shock at what happened to James Foley and now to another journalist (who happened to be Jewish this time).  But you expect Americans to give a shit about their problems.  Not going to happen.

                      •  This is an implicit admission (1+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        AoT

                        that it is indeed all about racism, if you're suggesting that actions by ISIS should influence our views of Israeli land grabs.

                •  This is the absolute truth (5+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  pajoly, AoT, corvo, cal2010, happymisanthropy
                  In fact, if every American had a well thought out and well researched position on the subject then it wouldn't be that hard to sway public opinion.
                  If politics was an intellectual exercise then yes, absolutely you could engage on an intellectual level and debate the issues and change people's minds.

                  What your comment gets at is the woefully under-recognized (by the good guys, that is) truth that so much of politics takes place on an emotional level and also on the level of habit. Positions are not carefully and rationally considered but come from what some people might call the "gut," for a variety of reasons.

                  Jon Beasley-Murray, a political theorist whom I highly respect, wrote an excellent book on this called Posthegemony, focusing on Latin American politics but with lessons that I think can be applied anywhere. I highly recommend it to anyone.

                  "As the madmen play on words, and make us all dance to their song / to the tune of starving millions, to make a better kind of gun..." -- Iron Maiden

                  by Lost Left Coaster on Tue Sep 02, 2014 at 12:02:55 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                •  True enough (4+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  AoT, corvo, poco, cal2010

                  I do think it has begun to change.

                  "Ferguson proves melanin is like catnip for bad cops; the more of this pigment one has, the more it attracts pigs." - pajoly

                  by pajoly on Tue Sep 02, 2014 at 12:06:56 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  It has, and starkly (3+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    corvo, poco, cal2010

                    But I think that our algorithm blinders on facebook and google may give the impression that it has changed more than it actually has. But it is a welcome change none the less.

                    My preferred pronoun is 'They', what's yours?

                    by AoT on Tue Sep 02, 2014 at 12:22:21 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

        •  Good grief. We're adults here. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          happymisanthropy

          Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood.--Lu Xun
          Support the BDS Movement--www.bdsmovement.net

          by Timaeus on Tue Sep 02, 2014 at 08:13:07 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

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