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View Diary: Kansas secretary of state (yeah, the birther guy) says Democrat can't withdraw from Senate race (281 comments)

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  •  If Taylor says "under the requirements of the law" (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    pollwatcher

    Does that translate to "I hereby declare that I meet the requirements of the law to withdraw my name"? I.e. - I'm incapable of serving should I be elected? Was Taylor just too indirect for Kobach?

    And is my reading of the law correct: you must declare this, but there's no possible challenge to whether your declaration is, in fact, valid?

    Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves. - William Pitt

    by Phoenix Rising on Thu Sep 04, 2014 at 02:19:46 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  that's the question, and that's the reading. NT (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Phoenix Rising, VClib
    •  No, there isn't, and it has never been done. (11+ / 0-)

      This year we've already had at least one candidate I know of drop off the ballot post primary and be replaced, and they were not asked to provide any reason that barred them from service.

      More importantly, Taylor did this IN the SoS office, and was assisted by the Assistant SoS who did not ask for anything - as it has never been done in past races.

      The declaration that you are unable as cited by law is not a declaration that you specifically define the issues which make it so.

      Gandhi's Seven Sins: Wealth without work; Pleasure without conscience; Knowledge without character; Commerce without morality; Science without humanity; Worship without sacrifice; Politics without principle
      >Follow @tmservo433

      by Chris Reeves on Thu Sep 04, 2014 at 02:25:30 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Different state. Different law. (0+ / 0-)

        Coming Soon -- to an Internet connection near you: Armisticeproject.org

        by FischFry on Thu Sep 04, 2014 at 02:45:03 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  how? (6+ / 0-)

          Kansas house seat withdrew a few weeks ago and kobach certified it. In 2012 he certified withdraws.. What other states do doesn't impact the precedent his office setup.

          Gandhi's Seven Sins: Wealth without work; Pleasure without conscience; Knowledge without character; Commerce without morality; Science without humanity; Worship without sacrifice; Politics without principle
          >Follow @tmservo433

          by Chris Reeves on Thu Sep 04, 2014 at 02:47:17 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I didn't know that you were referring to that. (0+ / 0-)

            Perhaps that withdrawal did include the declaration?

            If not, then Kobach has put himself in a tough spot.

            Coming Soon -- to an Internet connection near you: Armisticeproject.org

            by FischFry on Thu Sep 04, 2014 at 02:54:03 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Here's the letter (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              FischFry, Losty, VClib

              It references the statute, but has no "I declare ... incapable" language.

              •  Again, good work (0+ / 0-)

                Kobach might have a tough day in court tomorrow if Taylor's lawyers are this good.

                Coming Soon -- to an Internet connection near you: Armisticeproject.org

                by FischFry on Thu Sep 04, 2014 at 03:01:24 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  In the past.. (3+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  kefauver, El Mito, CWinebrinner

                  People have just listed the reason as the statute and that has been satisfactory.  They aren't obligated to say why, and several have for various reasons.. including this year, a girl who is just going to KSU dropped out.

                  But in 2012, 3 did.. so yeah, no one has ever been held to that standard here in KS, they all just site the statute and that's it.

                  Gandhi's Seven Sins: Wealth without work; Pleasure without conscience; Knowledge without character; Commerce without morality; Science without humanity; Worship without sacrifice; Politics without principle
                  >Follow @tmservo433

                  by Chris Reeves on Thu Sep 04, 2014 at 03:09:00 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  As we've discussed elsewhere ... (2+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    Losty, VClib

                    ... 99% of the time, no one's going to have reason to object to a candidate who wants to withdraw.  

                    (Though a strict reading of the incapacity statute would mean that someone who's nominated on Day 1 and on Day 2 is indicted on murder charges can't withdraw because, until he's convicted, he's still capable of serving.)

                    •  Does it, though? (2+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      jrand, Phoenix Woman

                      A strict reading says you have to comply with subsection b. Subsection b says you have to declare that you're incapable of serving before a notary. It doesn't, by a strict reading, require you to swear under oath that you're incapable of serving, nor does it say that declaring falsely (but with proper notary approval) prevents you from having your name withdrawn.

                      And 'capabiliity' is another open question: in most states, you can be incapable of serving because of some other obligation or even insufficient monetary compensation for the office.

                      This will go to court, but to my (non-lawyerly) reading of this, there are a lot of i-dotting and t-crossing that Kobach will have to do in order to argue this persuasively before a judge, especially given general practice in the state's past.

                      Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves. - William Pitt

                      by Phoenix Rising on Thu Sep 04, 2014 at 03:31:12 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                    •  So the fact that Kobach allowed this in the past (2+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      kefauver, jrand

                      Does not establish a clear pattern and precedent?

                      Visit http://theuptake.org/ for Minnesota news as it happens.

                      by Phoenix Woman on Thu Sep 04, 2014 at 03:50:01 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

      •  You do not have to explain why you can't serve (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Adam B

        That doesn't necessarily mean you can lie about it.

        I'm not clear whether he can. I would understand why the law might be written to preclude a party's nominee from withdrawing for no particularly good reason other than that he wants to see someone else win (which is probably exactly what the law was meant to stop --  maybe people sabotaging a party or taking a bribe to drop out and leave a party with no nominee). I's just a tad ambiguous

        Coming Soon -- to an Internet connection near you: Armisticeproject.org

        by FischFry on Thu Sep 04, 2014 at 02:48:07 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  No, you really don't.. (5+ / 0-)

          You also don't have to lie about it.   The reason you drop out for your inability to serve are your own, and you aren't obligated to make a statement of what they are, just that they are there.

          Chad Taylor could easily say "due to ongoing litigation against my person referencing 2010, I am aware I am unable to fulfill my duties" which is all well and true.

          But we have never required anyone running in KS to make that specific declaration

          Gandhi's Seven Sins: Wealth without work; Pleasure without conscience; Knowledge without character; Commerce without morality; Science without humanity; Worship without sacrifice; Politics without principle
          >Follow @tmservo433

          by Chris Reeves on Thu Sep 04, 2014 at 03:10:36 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  I cannot seerve because I do not wish to serve ... (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Losty

          I cannot seerve because I do not wish to serve therefore my efficacy as a servant will be hampered by my desire to not serve hence why I cannot serve. Now there's some logic for them to choke on!

    •  I think it could be challenged (0+ / 0-)

      The law refers to a signed and acknowledged declaration.

      Formally, this means you're acknowledging that this is your signature, not the truth of what you're signing. Notaries can take oaths about the truth of any sort of declaration or affirmation, but it's not clear that this statue is requiring that. I guess I'd want to know whether it's the practice in Kansas for the notary to first ask if it's true and correct, and maybe explain that this is under pain of perjury, before taking an acknowledgement of the signature.

      Coming Soon -- to an Internet connection near you: Armisticeproject.org

      by FischFry on Thu Sep 04, 2014 at 02:44:33 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Let's see. (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        FischFry, Losty, nicteis, VClib

        Who: "All conveyances, and other instruments affecting real estate must be acknowledged before a person authorized by the uniform law on notarial acts to perform notarial acts or, if acknowledged within this state, by a county clerk, register of deeds or mayor or clerk of an incorporated city."

        This letter was acknowledged by a notary. KS notary law says:

        53-503. Notarial acts. (a) In taking an acknowledgment, the notarial officer must determine, either from personal knowledge or from satisfactory evidence, that the person appearing before the officer and making the acknowledgment is the person whose true signature is on the instrument.
        There's no oath that I can see.
        •  That's interesting.... Good work (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Adam B

          I still think the intention was that it was meant to ensure it was a lawful (truthful) declaration, rather than to ensure the identity of the person making the declaration. However, it could be a statue that was badly drawn -- doesn't fully accomplish the purpose intended.

          If that's so, then it probably become a technicality that could be cured after the fact -- especially before close of business Friday.

          Coming Soon -- to an Internet connection near you: Armisticeproject.org

          by FischFry on Thu Sep 04, 2014 at 02:58:47 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

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