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View Diary: DCCC post-mortem ignores Hackett war stance (312 comments)

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  •  The political malpractice claim (none)
    is made in the diary itself, by none less than kos himself. Brigham simply supports the point already made.

    You, however, brought up an old beef you have with Brigham -- and, believe it or not, it's off-topic in this diary.

    Look, I've already gotten a zero for this, but I don't fucking care. You're out of line, and the way I read the ratings guidelines you deserve at least a 1, if not a 0, for the trollish way you attacked Brigham.

    Keep the discourse civil, dude. If you have a beef with kos calling out the DCCC for political malpractice, take it up with kos. Don't change the subject so you can continue an old fight with somebody else.

    The guy doesn't want to answer your stupid fucking question. And, you know what? He doesn't have to.

    I cried when they shot Medgar Evers
    tears ran down my spine
    -- Phil Ochs

    by litho on Fri Aug 05, 2005 at 04:59:39 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  OK, Now Are You're Just Makin' Shit Up? (none)
      Where was I not civil to Bob?  

      And if you can't see how whether he's competent to judge incompetence is relevant, I suspect you're really missing out on a whole lot that happens around here.

      The revolution will not be televised, but we'll analyze it to death at The Next Hurrah.

      by Dana Houle on Fri Aug 05, 2005 at 05:05:24 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Where? (none)
        Here. And here.

        Remember, dude, I gave you a 1? What the fuck do you think that was for? It looks like a couple of other people agree with me, too, because you've now got three 1's for the comment.

        Where there's smoke, there's fire, DH. Several people think your comment was out of line, and you might consider listening to us.

        I cried when they shot Medgar Evers
        tears ran down my spine
        -- Phil Ochs

        by litho on Fri Aug 05, 2005 at 05:41:01 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Who Are You, Mr. Rogers (none)
          Give me a fucking break; you have no idea what uncivil is.

          What's next, are you going to get mad because we're not having graham crackers and juice and laying on our rugs for our little nappy time?

          And some ones are a mark of honor; certainly a 1 from pursewarden is a sign that I probably did something right.  If you're going to throw in with him, that says a lot about your judgment.

          The revolution will not be televised, but we'll analyze it to death at The Next Hurrah.

          by Dana Houle on Fri Aug 05, 2005 at 06:04:36 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Guilt by association (none)
            is always a good tactic. Gives you a fig leaf, doesn't, that a loony like pursewarden also thinks you're out of line.

            But that doesn't change the point. Your comment to Brigham counts as harassment, pure and simple. It's unacceptable behavior.

            Now, maybe in the Michigan Democratic Party harassment is considered civil behavior. Elsewhere in the United States, however, it's considered a crime.

            I cried when they shot Medgar Evers
            tears ran down my spine
            -- Phil Ochs

            by litho on Fri Aug 05, 2005 at 06:18:01 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Um (none)
              Your comment:

              Several people think your comment was out of line, and you might consider listening to us.

              And you really have a laughably incompetent understanding of law.  

              As for the rest of it, you're obviously a precious and tender flower, and maybe not resilient enough for this.  Maybe you should go fan yourself and sit under a parasol to make sure you don't get the vapors.

              The revolution will not be televised, but we'll analyze it to death at The Next Hurrah.

              by Dana Houle on Fri Aug 05, 2005 at 06:22:59 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  You're becoming incoherent, dude (none)
                Are you sure you're ok?

                Maybe it's time to get some sleep, man, because you're having real trouble stringing two sentences together.

                You think harassment's not actionable? Try it at the office, man, try it at the office.

                And don't come crying to me when you get an injunction slapped on your sorry ass.

                I cried when they shot Medgar Evers
                tears ran down my spine
                -- Phil Ochs

                by litho on Fri Aug 05, 2005 at 06:35:01 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Wow. (none)
                  I'm really pissed.  That comment claiming I could get sued, because Daily Kos is soooooooo much like a workplace, is so stupid that I now realize all my previous comments to you were a complete waste of time.

                  I allowed you to waste something like 15 minutes of my life, and I'll never get that time back.

                  The revolution will not be televised, but we'll analyze it to death at The Next Hurrah.

                  by Dana Houle on Fri Aug 05, 2005 at 06:44:12 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Boy, not only are your writing skills going (none)
                    but your reading ones are, too.

                    For the record, what I said was that if you tried to do in the workplace what you've done here to Bob Brigham, you could get sued for harassment. And you'd lose that suit.

                    Don't tell me you've never heard of anti-stalking ordinances?

                    I cried when they shot Medgar Evers
                    tears ran down my spine
                    -- Phil Ochs

                    by litho on Fri Aug 05, 2005 at 06:50:11 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

        •  I've seen DH be uncivil (none)
          and I don't think that qualifies.
          •  Thank You (none)
            I would like to think I can still take incivility up a few notches.  To think that this isn't civil would be very disappointing; it would be like not having any more arrows in my quiver.  

            The revolution will not be televised, but we'll analyze it to death at The Next Hurrah.

            by Dana Houle on Fri Aug 05, 2005 at 06:18:45 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  Yeah, I've seen him worse, too (none)
            But I remember when a blogger (can't recall his screenname) got banned here for doing the same thing to Melody Townsel (over that plagiarism flap) as DHinMI is doing to Bob Brigham.

            If it was wrong then, it's wrong now. And if we're really interested in presenting a united front as Democrats against Republicans, then we really do need to treat each other with respect.

            Shit, from the things you're saying downthread I'd figure you'd understand that better than anyone...

            I cried when they shot Medgar Evers
            tears ran down my spine
            -- Phil Ochs

            by litho on Fri Aug 05, 2005 at 06:28:13 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME????????? (none)
              Show me where the fuck BOB BRIGHAM showed respect to Democrats?????

              That's my fucking point!  Why don't you fucking get it?

              Why is it OK in your mind for Bob to make unsubstantiated accusations of professional and political malpractice against DEMOCRATS and yet it's not OK to challenge him on his accusations?

              Are you fucking kidding me?  What don't you understand?????

              The revolution will not be televised, but we'll analyze it to death at The Next Hurrah.

              by Dana Houle on Fri Aug 05, 2005 at 06:36:32 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  You're losing it, man (none)
                Should we call you "DHNovakulainMI" from now on?

                Cause that bastard looked sane yesterday compared to the way you're behaving now...

                I cried when they shot Medgar Evers
                tears ran down my spine
                -- Phil Ochs

                by litho on Fri Aug 05, 2005 at 06:47:03 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

            •  Right now I am (none)
              a little perturbed with Bob. It looks like things may have smoothed over a touch with him and the DCCC. In theory his 50 state  plan is nice but I think DH has some valid questions.

              I squabble with people here frequently and have no major problems with others doing that. My main complaint with Bob is the extremely public nature of it including his CNN appearence. I'm also quite displeased with Markos' cheap shot on the front page.

              •  I don't know Bob (none)
                from a hole in the wall, but I respect that he went down to Ohio to work for, and blog on, the Hackett campaign. In theory, I really like the 50-state campaign, although I think DHinMI is actually raising some valid issues.

                This fight with DHinMI isn't about that. It's about his obnoxious way of raising that fight with Bob in a completely different forum.

                In fact, from what I can see, DHinMI has been totally rude about the whole thing from the beginning. I think his interest is in silencing Bob, not in debating the issues with him. If I were Bob, I wouldn't want to answer him, and that's the whole fucking problem.

                Get the two of them talking to each civilly -- and for that to happen DHinMI has to stop acting like a troll -- and maybe they could reach an understanding that would actually make the Democratic Party stronger.

                As long as DHinMI continues to act like an immature frat boy, though, this fight will just keep going on and we won't be able to take advantage of the Republicans' weakness.

                I cried when they shot Medgar Evers
                tears ran down my spine
                -- Phil Ochs

                by litho on Fri Aug 05, 2005 at 06:45:41 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Bob could always answer (none)
                  the question asked in order to put the whole thing to rest. Maybe you don't like the way he asked it but if Bob wants to go around trashing people and institutions he ought to have the facts to back it up.
                  •  The Obvious Answer (none)
                    Silencing Bob?  Hell no, and you're right: I'm trying to get an answer from Bob.  He's throwing around a lot of accusations, but when asked to support them, he meanders off and doesn't defend what he said.  

                    I'm hardly silencing him; I'm trying to get him to speak up.  You're right: Bob could just answer the damn question, and litho could go be Miss Manners defending someone else.

                    The revolution will not be televised, but we'll analyze it to death at The Next Hurrah.

                    by Dana Houle on Fri Aug 05, 2005 at 07:32:29 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                  •  Look, I would like to see Bob and DHinMI (none)
                    work this out between the two of them. Speaking as an outsider, however, DHinMI's "question" looks like a variation on "Are you still beating your wife?" He's not trying to start a dialogue, he's trying to embarass and silence a political opponent.

                    The "facts" that DHinMI is "requesting" look like technical information a political operative would need to design an effective targetting strategy. That is, they're only relevant if you think targetting works.

                    Bob clearly doesn't believe targetting works. He's suggesting a completely different approach to how we organize national congressional campaigns. He's looking at a different set of data than DHinMI, and he's coming up with different answers.

                    If DHinMI were interested in dialogue, he would be asking what dataset Bob is looking at, and why he finds that data more convincing than the traditional data used by political operatives.

                    I cried when they shot Medgar Evers
                    tears ran down my spine
                    -- Phil Ochs

                    by litho on Sat Aug 06, 2005 at 06:41:24 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Look, I'll Be Blunt: You're Fucking Stupid... (none)
                      ...or dishonest.  You choose.

                      I've asked Bob for an explanation, and you've spun it 150 different fucking ways to make me into the one who's attacking Democrats.

                      Stupid or dishonest.  Whichever one is up to you.  

                      The revolution will not be televised, but we'll analyze it to death at The Next Hurrah.

                      by Dana Houle on Sat Aug 06, 2005 at 08:26:28 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  Man, even after a good night's sleep (none)
                        your reading skills are STILL horrible! (I trust you had a good night's sleep, at least...)

                        Look, wanker, I never accused you of attacking "Democrats" -- in the abstract plural sense -- I've accused you of attacking, in a dishonest and unfair way, Bob Brigham.

                        Now, you can "spin" that however you want, but in my mind you're simply avoiding your own (ir)responsibility in this entire discussion.

                        I cried when they shot Medgar Evers
                        tears ran down my spine
                        -- Phil Ochs

                        by litho on Sat Aug 06, 2005 at 08:38:46 AM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  Stupid or Dishonest? (none)
                          I've accused you of attacking, in a dishonest and unfair way, Bob Brigham

                          ...who was attacking democrats in a dishonest and unfair way!

                          OK for Bob to do it, but, according to you, not OK for me to call Bob on it?

                          That you appear to be incapable of understanding this distinction has me leaning to stupid...

                          The revolution will not be televised, but we'll analyze it to death at The Next Hurrah.

                          by Dana Houle on Sat Aug 06, 2005 at 08:42:41 AM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  It's HOW you did, DH (none)
                            and how you did it amounts to stalking and harassment, plain and simple.

                            You may not believe me, but I actually am interested in seeing an honest and forthright discussion between you and Bob on the issues.

                            Unfortunately, based on what I've seen here, I don't think you are capable of having such a discussion.

                            You know, pyrrho had a diary up this morning on dKos etiquette, and TarheelDem made the following statement in a comment:

                            Troll-rating should be for posts (not people, posts) that unnecessarily seek a fight just for the purpose of fighting--that are intended to initiate a flame war. Regardless of opinion or ideology.

                            If you don't see yourself in that quote, then you need a new mirror.

                            I cried when they shot Medgar Evers
                            tears ran down my spine
                            -- Phil Ochs

                            by litho on Sat Aug 06, 2005 at 08:53:14 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Yup, Stupid (none)

                            The revolution will not be televised, but we'll analyze it to death at The Next Hurrah.

                            by Dana Houle on Sat Aug 06, 2005 at 09:03:06 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Yup, wanker (none)

                            I cried when they shot Medgar Evers
                            tears ran down my spine
                            -- Phil Ochs

                            by litho on Sat Aug 06, 2005 at 09:22:29 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  very couragous of you (none)
                            to take on Bob like this, with nary a word for Markos.  

                            I do believe that it's Markos' diary you keep responding to, and that he was the one who tapped the words "political malpractice" into his keyboard.

                            You're very selective in your targets.  Much like the DCCC.

                            Comments referring only to ratings are a nuisance. Noise. They waste time and bandwidth. We're all dumber for having read them.

                            by willowby on Sat Aug 06, 2005 at 11:31:46 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Oh, Grow the Fuck Up (none)
                            It was a comment in response to Bob's comment, not the entire diary.  If I don't have a right to respond to Bob's comment unless I'm responding to the entire fucking diary, tell me how the fuck your comment right here has anything to do with Sirota's post?

                            Bob can accuse people of malpractice, skate away rather than defend him accusation, and you guys make him into a martyr?

                            Give me a fucking break.

                            And look around; I directly addressed Markos in this thread.

                            Sit down and shut up until you have something worthwhile to say.

                            The revolution will not be televised, but we'll analyze it to death at The Next Hurrah.

                            by Dana Houle on Sat Aug 06, 2005 at 12:34:57 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  making Bob a martyr? (none)
                            You're kidding me with this, right?  It's clear to anyone who's not threatened by Bob's success that his earthly political life isn't expiring anytime soon.  There's little need for a crown of thorns just yet.  

                            Btw, who said you had to respond to the entire diary? I merely pointed out something you seem to have missed, or perhaps deliberately ignored, again and again.  

                            I refer to the final three lines in this diary; Markos' words, not Bob's:

                            The fact that the DCCC ignores one of the most striking lessons of the Hackett race is mind-boggling. If there was such a thing as "political malpractice", they would be guilty of it.

                            If it's the accusation of "political malpractice" that has your panties in such a twist, the attacking of other Dems, I don't see that reflected in your respectful reply to Markos here:

                            I Think Sirota Completely Misses the Point (4.00 / 4)

                            This document isn't really a strategy memo, it's a rah-rah thing that they pass around for fundraising purposes.  This isn't really to House Dems to talk with them about strategy, it's for potential donors to hear the "pitch" for why investing in the House Democrats is a good investment.

                            Come to think of it, nor do I recall you taking issue with Markos for making similar comments about the DLC here:

                            In reality, it's about who controls the money. And that's why the DLC is becoming irrelevant (hence the importance to them of the Hillary pact), and why it is doomed to irrelevance. There are plenty of "centrist" organizations within the Democratic Party that have not earned the ire of the rest of the party. The DLC stands alone.

                            So what's left? Let the DLC fizzle out on its own? We could do that. It has a limited shelf life.

                            Or we can help the process along, working collectively to hasten the process. And I've got a plan to do just that.

                            Consider this a teaser. ETA is four weeks.

                            If it's attacking other Dems that serves as the basis of your narrowly-aimed blustering bravado, then you're the biggest pussy here for not calling Markos out on it too.

                            Comments referring only to ratings are a nuisance. Noise. They waste time and bandwidth. We're all dumber for having read them.

                            by willowby on Sat Aug 06, 2005 at 01:48:45 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                •  Please everybody (none)
                  Repeat after me: It's not about me.

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