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View Diary: [UPDATED] Just Admit You Fucked Up (252 comments)

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  •  Yes, well. (none)
    If only the Dems had voted for the war as a matter of principle. But most of them were afraid that if they voted against, they'd be labled anti-American and attacked for "endangering the country." Hardly a "principled stand" that reflects the reasons their constituents sent them to DC in the first place.

    Like I said, there's a word for Democrats who leave their principles at the door of the Capitol building - that word is "Republican".

    BTW, can you name some pro-war Dems who vote with us on "our principles"? And I mean Dems who voted for the war cuz they really, really liked the idea of the war, not because they were afraid of the political fallout (so the George Millers & Joe Liebermans don't qualify). And what would those principles be? The bankruptcy bill? The tax cuts (rounds 1 & 2)? The energy bill? On each of those votes, we lost a lot of the same Dems in the Senate who "supported" the war at first.

    Don't take my word for it - Sirota has a great list of the Dem sellouts on his site. If those are what you call "Democratic principles," then I hereby incorporate my original comments with extra emphasis.

    I suspect from your comment that you come from the DLC wing (am I wrong?), and while I respect your opinions I'll also tell you straight that I am of the school that the DLC is the worst thing that ever happened to progressive politics and should be called what it is: a Republican Trojan horse.

    The "permanent Republican majority" is in effect as long as we accept the wolves in sheeps clothing under our famous "big tent."

    And the single biggest issue for me in the last election was leadership, which is why I campaigned for Howard Dean and cried when Iowa took the "safe" route with Kerry.

    I am the federal government.

    by mateosf on Sat Aug 06, 2005 at 05:36:53 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  let me just say that... (none)
      Yes, you are wrong. I too think that we should have a more progressive Democratic party, and we should work towards it through pushing progressive candidates who can get elected in the 'DLC Dem' districts. When there's no practical alternative, I still submit that even having a 'DLC Dem' on our side is better than having a Republican on the other side, regardless of whatever single issue you might happen to have in common with that Republican. When that Republican is forced by the leadership to vote the party line, it won't matter one whit what you thought his position on that issue was.

      P.S. That is a great list; to the extent that those members "win re-election easily", I agree that they shouldn't "aid and abet the Republican Party/Corporate America's extreme agenda". I see nothing wrong with sending them that message. But still--not to the extent that we lose their seats to Republicans who will do the same, and worse.

      •  Again, my point is (none)
        A DLC Dem is a Republican. Walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, votes like a fuckin duck.

        See Frank, Thomas, "What's the Matter w/ Kansas." Progressive values can win in so-called "DLC-Dem districts" if only the DCCC would run progressive candidates who actually stand on their principles (see Hackett, Paul; Ohio). Instead we get Joe Lieberman.

        We obviusly disagree about the strategy - I see no value in electing Dems who help R's achieve their policy goals. So what if they vote with us that one time? It's all the other times that count. The Dem's inability to whip the rank and file the way the R's do is the result of sending Trojan Horse D's to Congress.

        I don't agree, as you seem to suggest, that it's OK to win the seat and lose the principle. That's what got us where we are today.

        Not a winning strategy, IMO.

        I am the federal government.

        by mateosf on Sun Aug 07, 2005 at 01:22:01 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  intolerance is not a progressive value; (none)
          however--if you can't see the virtue of having a majority in Congress, so we can actually push a Democratic agenda, then I can't help you. I believe that's the big picture here.

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