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View Diary: US won't let Canada help Katrina victims (295 comments)

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  •  random katrina question (none)
    we've all seen the "looters vs. finders" pics.

    is the charge of racism at all mitigated by the fact that different news agencies supplied the pictures?

    the "find" picture is AFP, whereas both "looting" pics are AP.  conversely, has anybody seen an AFP pic of "looting" or an AP pic of "finding"?

    •  weird (none)
      didn't mean to reply to you.  sorry for the confusion.
    •  CNN has one of the previous AP looter pics... (none)
      ...on a slideshow, but have neutralized the language. The kid is now merely "carrying groceries".

      http://www.cnn.com/interactive/weather/0508/gallery.katrina.tues.pm/frameset.exclude.html

      Amateurs talk strategery, professionals talk logistics

      by Young Freud on Wed Aug 31, 2005 at 09:08:36 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  AFP picture of "looting" right 'ere (none)
      Take a look at

      this AFP picture
      :

      Caption:

      Looters hit a drug store in the French Quarter district of New Orleans in New Orleans, Louisiana, following Hurricane Katrina. Fresh floods, fires and looting rode in the destructive wake of Hurricane Katrina, deepening a humanitarian crisis that left hundreds feared dead and sections of New Orleans submerged to the rooftops.(AFP/James Nielsen)

      As someone pointed out earlier, note that the store says "Now open", and the supposed "looter" has items in grocery bags!

      This picture above, coupled with the AFP one of white folks "finding" supplies in a store, should be used in the racism charge. Both of these are now from the same agency.

      •  ok except (none)
        the store does look closed to me. Only saying i wouldn't rely on that as the pillar of your arguement.

        "What they found is a silver bullet in the form of a person."

        by subtropolis on Wed Aug 31, 2005 at 10:21:41 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  The 'NOW OPEN' signs and (none)
          automatic doors opening for customers are a dead giveaway that the store is, in fact, open. It does not look closed AT ALL.

          There is no such thing, at this stage of the world's history in America, as an independent press. - John Swinton, 1890

          by Xeno of Elia on Thu Sep 01, 2005 at 12:04:13 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  signs shmigns (none)
            And doors can be forced. All i'm saying is that, aside from th signs, it doesn't really look as if the store is, in fact, open for business. Whether those people are taking things without paying is none of my concern (aside for the general concern for their safety, that is).

            If you want to argue about this that's fine with me. I think you have a good point. But i recommend you don't shout 'conspiracy' and that that store is open. To me, it looks dark.

            "What they found is a silver bullet in the form of a person."

            by subtropolis on Thu Sep 01, 2005 at 08:30:29 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  does not matter (none)
          This was just a tangential comment. It does not matter if the store is in fact open or not.

          Let's say the black woman is in fact taking stuff without paying. OK. So, in this picture, she is "looting", and in the other picture, the white folks are "finding". Both pictures from the same agency, AFP.

          That's all one needs for the argument.

      •  Sigh... (none)
        You know, you guys have pretty much discredited yourselves completely by claiming there is no looting going on in New Orleans.

        I can't tell my looking at every photograph what is happening.  Yeah this picture looks like a rush on a store that happens to be open.

        But CNN had a street interview with some kids who had stolen about a dozen pairs of nikes, and they were pretty much admitting they stole 'em.  But, yeah, yeah... I know... They weren't stealing the nikes, they were Liberating them from the occupying forces of the shoe store.

        Whatever.  This whole debate is crap.

        •  Looting or surviving? (none)
          A lot of what is being called looting is really surviving based on what I have seen.  

          And who has claimed that there is no looting going on?

          Dailykos.com; an oasis of truth.

          by Shockwave on Wed Aug 31, 2005 at 10:58:35 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Let's see a little balance... (none)
            Instead of claiming every picture isn't looting... Let's see a bit of balance, and condemn the kids stealing the nikes and blue jeans.

            That's how you frame an issue.  When you only complain about one side, you just end up looking discredited and foolish.

            •  If I was a kid in NO today... (none)
              ...I might want to get me and my friends some sneakers if I could. I may not have more than one pair of very wet shoes. Kids may not have a clue of whats going on. And furthermore, as minors they have a much more difficult time of telling right from wrong, according to the law.

              Of course there is looting. What does that change?

              Dailykos.com; an oasis of truth.

              by Shockwave on Wed Aug 31, 2005 at 11:31:44 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  Yes (none)
              Let's all condemn children who've are surviving one of the greatest disasters in American history for their supposed moral failures.  We'll look real good, then.

              Feh.  I'd rather look bad.

            •  I do not deny there is looting (none)
              but I question the importance of it. Right now in New Orleans people can literally get away with murder. Murder someone, throw their body in the flood water, no one would ever know. Yes law and order is needed to protect people's lives. However, the flood makes accumulation and protection of material goods a minor concern.

              To thine own self be true - W.S.

              by Agathena on Thu Sep 01, 2005 at 01:00:14 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  If I owned that store (none)
              I would be trying to get a message to the people there to take all the sneakers they can get a hold of and pass them out to everyone to protect their feet from rusty nails and bacteria filled water.
              Short of getting that message out I would be praying they looted me.

              Liberal, Christian, Feminazi, Mom.

              by TeresaInPa on Thu Sep 01, 2005 at 07:56:42 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

        •  first of all...who are "you guys? (none)
          and why is "looting" even important?

          Liberal, Christian, Feminazi, Mom.

          by TeresaInPa on Thu Sep 01, 2005 at 07:46:22 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  "Looting" vs. "Finding" (none)
          "Looting" vs. "Finding", both from AFP agency for seemingly identical situations.

          That is all, this is the whole charge and the whole argument. Try to focus for a moment, without going away on a tangent.

          Get it now?

          •  You folks claiming the AFP captions (none)
            are "racist"... you do know, don't you, that AFP stands for Agence France-Presse?

            Get some perspective. The whole world isn't organized around the American brand of race politics. For foreigners -- and that even includes Canadians -- American race sensitivities are a minefield of weird, hidden hazards. Americans will take offense at the strangest, seemingly most trivial, things. I've been castigated for saying a person I admired was "articulate" -- because his skin was brown. Everywhere else in the world, "articulate" is high praise; it means the person is surpassingly good at putting their thoughts into words. In the US, it turns out, it is still permissible to compliment white people thus... but not blacks.

            That's a "rule" that makes no sense whatsoever to anyone outside the United States. There's a whole network of peculiarities like this. In this case, the French captioned those photos, most likely, without even thinking about the skin color of the people portrayed.

            Folly is fractal: the closer you look at it, the more of it there is. - TNH

            by Canadian Reader on Thu Sep 01, 2005 at 12:10:05 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  and your point is? (none)
              You folks claiming the AFP captions are "racist"... you do know, don't you, that AFP stands for Agence France-Presse?

              .. and so on..

              I am a European who currently lives in Canada. What is your point? You think these are actual French people who wrote the captions in French that later got translated? Or do you think it is more likely that these are American employees of AFP who did that? And even if they are French, what exactly is your evidence that the French do not harbour racist tendencies and don't you think it is rather obvious that it is exactly the opposite (provided you know anything about France's more visible struggles with that in their own country over the last couple of decades at least)?

              By the way, what is it with the epidemic of recent "you folks"/"you people"? I don't know personally any of the people on this site. I am not even an American, as most of them are. I do not speak for anyone but myself. Please stop projecting.

              •  Good point about American employees (none)
                maybe writing those captions. And I'll be more careful about using "you folks" -- I actually know it's objectionable, but in this case I specifically wanted to address the few people in this thread who were, I thought, reading too much into a phrase.

                Is France racist? I'm sure it is; so is Canada. People everywhere divide the world into "them" and "us". You would probably know better than I where the French social fracture points are. But neither France nor Canada is racist in the American categories.

                I am a Canadian who currently lives in the US. Until you actually live here, you can have no concept of how much black-white subtext there is to everything, even in New Jersey. The scars of the civil war warped American thought in ways that Canada and France have never experienced.

                Folly is fractal: the closer you look at it, the more of it there is. - TNH

                by Canadian Reader on Thu Sep 01, 2005 at 08:04:25 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

        •  strawman (none)
          You know, you guys have pretty much discredited yourselves completely by claiming there is no looting going on in New Orleans.

          Aaah, a strawman argument, coupled with an apparent lack of reading comprehension (or is it just a simple intentional non-sequitur?). Nice job, Steve.

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