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  •  Genocide. (3.28)
    I repeat: Genocide.
    •  No, Bush Era Ineptitude. Today I am Ashamed (4.00)
      to be an American.

      The Killer Hurricane strikes New Orleans, and then the levees burst, as predicted. And yet Amrica can't get sufficient water, food, cots, tents, and troops to the victims within three days?

      Not to mention the Governement doesn't have one collective site to link survivors with family members.

      Plus, the Search and Rescuse missions seem to be haphazard at best. Why weren't people being assigned specific streets? And why aren't previously searched houses being marked with spray paint?

      New Orleans-- 72 hours later no communications, no drinking water, not enough police/troops. Bottomline, we're not prepared for another 9/11.

      by DeanFan84 on Fri Sep 02, 2005 at 12:22:52 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Sorry, that ain't ineptitude. (3.66)
        It's knowingly abandoning to their fate tens, possibly hundreds of thousands of folks whom they regard as undesirable.

        Genocide.

        •  it's not geneological (none)
          it's mass misery... it's proof there is NO DEBATE POSSIBLE about the responsibility of a government to it's people.

          You see it's responsibility here... missing.

        •  Genocide (4.00)
          I concur: it is not unreasonable to begin using the language of genocide to describe our government's pitiful response.

          Are we marching on Washington this weekend, people?

          •  I disagree (none)
            Genocide implies malicious intent. There is none.

            Just an overwhelming ineptitude grown out of stubbornness, arrogance, and the manipulation of the public's myopic all-consuming paranoia about terrorism.

            •  Contempt for the poor coupled with (4.00)
              racism towards blacks.

              Yes, this is a crime against humanity.  And the whole world is watching this, aghast.

              See Bush dodging Diane Sawyer's questions about accountability...that no one, no one of authority was around to coordinate medical, rescue and security for these people.  He says, in effect, that aid is coming now.

              Where the fuck was it five days ago??

              I hate him.  Lord, I hate him AND his crew.

              And if Clinton doesn't stop kissing Dubya and his daddy's asses, he's effectively stripped of his 'honorary black' status for good and all.  There's a limit.

              An untypical Negro...since 1954.

              by blksista on Fri Sep 02, 2005 at 03:27:30 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  A key Republican strategy is (4.00)
                "starving the beast."  They want to take away
                our Social Security so we don't have money to support the Democrats (or have our lives become so desperate that we can't concentrate on politics). Cutting funds to improve the levees could be seen as part of this policy.
                To me the next step to genocide is a small one.

                "Together we will stand, every boy, girl, woman and a man."

              •  Jack Shafer on Slate (4.00)
                Wrote an excellent article here commenting on the lack of discussion about race and class by the reporters covering this horror. I particularly like this:

                But we aren't one united race, we aren't one united class, and Katrina didn't hit all folks equally. By failing to acknowledge upfront that black New Orleanians--and perhaps black Mississippians--suffered more from Katrina than whites, the TV talkers may escape potential accusations that they're racist. But by ignoring race and class, they boot the journalistic opportunity to bring attention to the disenfranchisement of a whole definable segment of the population. What I wouldn't pay to hear a Fox anchor ask, "Say, Bob, why are these African-Americans so poor to begin with?"

                Indeed.

                Hostage smiles on presidents, freedom scribbled in the subway. It's like night and day. - Joni Mitchell

                by jazzlover on Fri Sep 02, 2005 at 04:45:43 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

              •  Nuff said... (none)
                Stop being blindsided people. Why is the government not there? They do not care. What is the hurry to save a thousand Black souls, a thousand poor Whites souls, a thousand elderly souls, a thousand Black and poor whites' babies souls? There is none. I am near tears typing this because although I disliked the president and his government before, I have gone beyond dislike. There is pure contempt in my soul and hate. This is a genocide, this is done with malicious intent. This will NEVER be forgotten.

                "If anything can go wrong, it will, and at the worst possible time." - Murphy's Law

                by MyOwnWoman on Fri Sep 02, 2005 at 07:17:17 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

            •  If the national guard really are keeping (none)
              rescuers out that steps over malicious intent border:
              http://neworleans.indymedia.org/news/2005/09/3941.php
              There are supplies sitting in Baton Rouge for the folks in New Orleans, but the National Guard has the city surrounded and is not letting anyone in or out. They are turning away people with s[QUOTE]upplies, claiming it is too dangerous. If we have planes that can drop bombs on people in Iraq, certianly we can air drop supplies into the city
            •  Genocide (4.00)
              does NOT imply malicious intent.  That is a convenient misconception.

              There is also such a thing as malicious indifference, which IMHO, perfectly captures this POTUS and his administration.

              In a democratic society some are guilty, but all are responsible. -Rabbi Abraham Joshua Heschel

              by a gilas girl on Fri Sep 02, 2005 at 06:01:01 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Genocide (none)
                Actually the definition in the Genocide Convention does include intent:

                "Article 2.  In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:
                (a) Killing members of the group;
                (b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
                (c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
                (d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
                (e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group."

                However, if you wish to use the term more loosely, I have no objection.  Certainly, this indifference and incompetence would not be apparent if a hurricane had flooded Greenwich, CT or Palo Alto, CA.

          •  I am truly afraid (none)
            this may set off a wave of civil unrest like we haven't seen in 40 years.  Now I believe that race was not a factor in this govt. ineptitude, but I can most definitely see where those starving folks in NOLA might see things differently.  I would become bitter and suspicious after five days too.

            I pray that I am wrong.

            The truth always matters.

            by texasmom on Fri Sep 02, 2005 at 03:18:19 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Why are you afraid? (none)
              Sounds to me like we need some unrest if this is how the government is (not) caring for those most in need.
              •  It is certainly time for change (none)
                My mother was a part-time civil rights worker (voter rights) in the early 1960's.  We were afraid for her life.  We do NOT need any more people dying to solve inequity.

                The truth always matters.

                by texasmom on Fri Sep 02, 2005 at 06:34:11 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Regardless of race (none)
                  Our world will change will we or won't we.  Gas prices are fixing to change the walmart way of life cause all goods are going up.  The only thing we are exporting is death in the form of military weapons.  We have already lost mobility.  Planes are going to bankrupt because of 20% increase in fuel. Buses, trucks all will cost more to use.  My dream of getting on the road in a camper is crushed, at least at the moment.  Just taking a trip across town will cost more.
                  But more than that I believe that people will begin to understand that governing requires more than political allegiance.  We will, hopefully, begin to look at the people who run with a different mindset.  Hopefully people will begin to understand that it could have been us, could have been them left in that godawful football field with no water, no bathrooms, no privacy, no support, no leadership, no food.
            •  Just you wait... (none)
              Once they start pulling thousands of dead bodies out of New Orleans, we'll ALL be ready to have a little unrest.
              •  Do you think... (none)
                ...that the death toll will rival that of 9/11? My husband said it last night - that's the first time I heard that.

                What do you think?

                •  It will rival 9/11 (none)
                  In this same way 9/11 rivalled OK City.  

                  This is going to end up in a different order of magnitude.

                  •  Woah. Crap. (none)
                    Man - I hope you and my husband are wrong about that, but it sure don't look good.

                    I can't believe - it stuns me - that people ARE DYING RIGHT NOW!

                    I went to a friend's house last night - he was watching the football game.

                    You tell me - on 9/11, while they were STILL PULLING BODIES from the wreckage - do you think the NFL would play a game?

                    •  If they had reacted properly (none)
                      On Saturday and Sunday, then I think the death toll would have been under a thousand.  Right now I expect it to be more like ten thousand, if not more.  Every disaster simulation for a NO flood has put the death toll far higher than that - 40 to 80 000, so I think I am being conservative here.  Moreover, the unforgivable response to this just compounds the problem.  
                •  absolutely (none)
                  I'd be stunned if there were fewer than 3000 dead after all the bodies have been counted.

                  Politics is like driving. To go backward, put it in R. To go forward, put it in D.

                  by TrueBlueMajority on Fri Sep 02, 2005 at 07:24:43 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

            •  race may not have been (none)
              a factor but class sure as hell was.  Poor?  You have no voice, you do not count, your life is worthless.

              And if that fact - fact - triggers civil unrest, maybe it's damn well long overdue.

            •  If more big hurricanes hit ... (none)
              We could see a loss of civil order in much of the Gulf Coast and/or the Southeast. It's very frightening.
          •  DC in September? (none)
            Isn't there a mass rally already planned for the weekend of the 24th?
        •  Sorry, that ain't ineptitude (4.00)
          it's pure, soulless cruelty.
          But now Condi has some nice new shoes.

          Sturm und Drang -- poking at culture's soft underbelly since 2005.

          by magpie02141 on Fri Sep 02, 2005 at 05:38:34 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  Not inept; policy priorities (none)
        People and resources expended elsewhere; FEMA allowed to deteriorate.  Flood control plans not followed and not funded.  "inept" gets it totally wrong; these were all intentional decisions, reflecting what the Bushies care about.  Krugman's op-ed gets it right:

        http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/02/opinion/02krugman.html

    •  Don't encourage them (none)
      they might think they're getting somewhere.

      The dark at the end of the tunnel is an oncoming age.

      by peeder on Fri Sep 02, 2005 at 12:29:57 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  why overload that term (none)
      there are lots of other bad ones.
      •  Overt Class Warfare fits nicely (4.00)
        Doesnt have the same impact though.
        •  not for most I guess (none)
          I like it though.
        •  Yeah, but they found Fats Domino; (4.00)
          so everything's okay now....by the way, how's Paris Hilton's new dog coming along?  Also, will Brad and Jennifer reunite?

          "We do know of certain knowledge that he [Osama Bin Laden] is either in Afghanistan, or in some other country, or dead."--Donald Rumsfeld

          by sunbro on Fri Sep 02, 2005 at 02:47:35 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Urban renewal as class warfare (3.80)
          Overt Class Warfare fits nicely

          To be even more precise what is intended is class warfare disguised as "natural" disaster-driven urban renewal. The game plan is that none of the single family frame homes in black neighborhoods will be rebuilt and all the people who lived in them will be forced to relocate.

          Notice that Bush, while he said the city would rise again, also said that the "experts" would have to decide just how, that it would take "years," and that it in the end it would be a "better place for it" (translation: a  richer and more white place).

          The intent to make a basic change in the character of the city will be somewhat masked in the sort run by a few high profile building and restoration projects.  But the real key will be what will happen to all the cheap, wood frame,  residential housing that will be made uninhabitable (by usual standards) from weeks or months under water.  The Federal Government will leave the "redlining" of the rebuilding efforts to others. Will the city be willing to restore utilities to those areas?  Will financing and insurance be available for home construction in those areas?  Will there be prohibitive new building code requirements?  All Federal rebuilding aid will, of course,  be made contingent on these things so as to let others take the blame.

          But what will be done about the people who want to return and live in wrecked places without new building and without and utilities?  There will be labor jobs available, but the planners intend,  for reasons of "public order and safety,"  not to permit people to return to the poor residential areas.

          The reason the Federal planners are letting things go to hell is that that is what it will take to empty the city.  And unless they can do that now it will be hard to ever drive all the poor from their homes no mater how wrecked they are.  And if they stay there will be demands for electricity and water to be restored even without new construction.

          So here is what "they" plan:  once there are enough military forces in the area we will  see a violent "war on looters" going on against poor black people who are not willing to give up their homes, wrecked as they are. And after a certain point it will be true: anyone who survives very long there will have to have gotten supplies somewhere illegal because there will be no food and water being distributed except to those who report for evacuation.  

          The "war on looters" will soon  result in deaths to troops or police from chasing armed people through a strange Water World version of NO.  Then the holdouts will be declared "dead enders" and finally "terrorists".  Then the line will be that we need to "fight urban terror" in New Orleans so we don't need to fight it in other cities.

          Welcome to new New Orleans and to new America.

    •  GENOCIDE (4.00)
      Yes, it's genocide, and somebody ought to call the UN Security Council into Emergency Session!!  Why do u think the Bushies have always been against the International Court at all costs--because they knew they would be committing War Crimes, in Afghanistan, Iraq, elsewhere, and now in f...ing New Orleans!!!   Let's shoot the motherf...ers cuz they're pissed off we left 'em to die without food, water, or shelter!!!  Mark my words--first thing they'll do when they get the Guard in there is try to ban the cameras....can't have genocide on tv...live feeds of dying little babies....sick beyond belief!!!
    •  Oh for fuck's sake (4.00)
      Do you know anything about anything? Genocide is the systematic destruction of a particular class of people, with the open, stated intent of killing them off. People consciously going about their day for the express purpose of murdering innocents.

      The unfairness and the incompetence have fallen brutally hard on one segment of the population, but that does not amount to genocide. Many REAL survivors and victims of genocide, and their offspring, do not appreciate the conflation of that term with ordinary average political incompetence, fraud and waste.

      The tragedy in New Orleans is apocolyptic in scope, but it is assuredly NOT genocide.

      •  What do you call cutting off welfare, medicaid (4.00)
        benefits, unemployment, etc if not trying to destroy someone's way of life, to exterminate them? TO let them die on the streets like vermin? It is too genoicide.
        •  Do you speak english? (none)
          It's so NOT genocide. THERE ARE NO ARMED TROOPS WANTONLY KILLING INDIVIDUALS BECAUSE OF THEIR ETHNIC GROUP.

          Genocide is a narrow, specific term that describes a particular, awful human practice. Don't strip it of all it's meaning just because lots of other horrible stuff is happening. Have some respect for the victims of brutal repression, thier experiences were unique.

          •  Water and food is not getting to the refugees... (none)
            National Guard, upthread, is not allowing people and supplies in.  Why?

            Ineptitude at the 17th Street Levee caused even more suffering.  Hastert tooted his horn about NOT
            EVEN rebuilding these people's lives, the pig.

            Bush kept on ignoring them until he was forced to end his meandering and footdragging...and THEN he asked his father and Clinton to get their hands dirty for him.

            Why is it taking more than five days to get the Federal government--our government, OUR employee(s) as Cindy Sheehan would deftly put it--taking care of  OUR PEOPLE?

            I don't think genocide is a word lightly bandied about.  But it is.

            An untypical Negro...since 1954.

            by blksista on Fri Sep 02, 2005 at 08:11:33 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  genocide does not require (none)
            explicit expressed intent.  Er, Rowanda.  It doesn't require actual troops.  That is just how it was done in the past.  It could be intentional neglect.  It could be forcing them to live in squalor.  Are they just incompetent or do are they trying too hard?  I hate to burst your bubble.
            •  I'm not in a bubble (none)
              Um. Ruwanda. Where the Hutus and Tutsis were going at it with machetes and burning tires, and lining up people in churches to gun them down or toss in a grenade to a crowded building with children. If that's not expressed intent, I don't know what is. No one is lining up blacks in New Orleans and shooting them in the head. There is a chance some of those stranded may survive. If there were a genocide occurring, NONE of them would stand a chance and the troops would have pulled out long ago.

              Get a grip.

        •  Additionally (none)
          in light of the very sober comment below, even if the abuse and neglect do fall upon a particular ethnic group, the intent is still not to rid the world, or even Louisiana, of all the African-Americans. Or even the poor ones.

          Are there those among our policy leaders and those prosecuting their policies who would subscribe to a plan to rid the world of African-Americans? Of that I have no doubt, BUT, even the most casual observer has to admit that we aren't there yet.

          •  Actually (none)
            Genocide must be intentional, but the intent need not be to destroy the ENTIRE group in question, just either in whole or (substantial) part.

            E.g. if Hitler had only intended to kill Jews on the European side of the Atlantic, it would still have been genocide.

        •  um yeah. (none)
          Welfare and Medicaid are lifesavers I agre, but to make them a 'way of life."  That's the whole problem.
      •  And everyone's forgetting (none)
        That there ARE people trapped in this situation who are not African-American, and who aren't even U.S. citizens. There are tourists there also.

        When those people get back to their own countries and start telling their stories, I would bet even more sh** will hit the fan. They won't be suppressed or ignored like our own citizenry might be.

        "I must admit that I don't see a bright tomorrow; still, I must also confess that my hopes are fairly high"--Ass Ponys, "Fighter Pilot"

        by oxymoron on Fri Sep 02, 2005 at 06:32:13 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Actually, Not Quite (none)
        Here's the international legal definition of genocide.  It doesn't necessarily involve killing off a group, just destroying it.  For example, international law lists causing mental harm, preventing births, and transfering children away from adults as potentially genocidal acts.

        However, the intent to destroy at least part of a group is necessary for genocide (folks upthread who say intent is not at issue are just wrong).  And I with those who are saying that NOLA ain't genocide.  The Bush administration truly does not give a good goddam about poor people, the vast majority of people of color, or anybody besides their rich cronies (who, to be fair, include several people of color). Utter indifference is not genocidal. And I'm convinced that's what we're seeing here.

        "This war is an ex-parrot." - The Editors

        by GreenSooner on Fri Sep 02, 2005 at 06:47:41 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Good point (none)
          Yes, I agree, intent to destroy through neglect is a standard practice of genocidal regimes. Intent and organization, over a sustained period of time, even if the organization amounts to nothing so much as a cover up of evidence.

          Humanity's lowest low may have been the attacks on the Japanese cities of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, when hundreds of thousands of innocents were slaughtered. Even those attacks do not, in my opinion, amount to genocide in that the intent was not to rid the world of the Japanese people forever.

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