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View Diary: Can FEMA Do Anything Right? (222 comments)

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  •  Not The Case? (4.00)
    I haven't been on dKos much so I've assumed it's already been repeatedly diaried (God forbid), but everybody knows about FEMA's stand-down order of Monday, August 29, right?

    Thom Hartmann was talking about it on his show today.

    Give Bush a break, he knew 9/11 was coming a lot earlier than he knew Katrina was.

    by Irfo on Mon Sep 05, 2005 at 01:23:48 PM PDT

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    •  Holy Christ! (4.00)
      That is unbelievable! And that's ON THE FUCKING FEMA SITE!!!! What the hell is happening here?!?
    •  Don't Panic (none)
      I read the order. Doesn't look like malice to me. They're saying don't just form a group of buddies, grab some emergency vehicles and head to NO. Check with your boss first.

      Looks to me like FEMA doesn't want emergency services to look like a kid's soccer game where all the little kids go for the ball and leave the field open for an undefended kicker to score a goal.

      Somebody had to stay home to guard the firehouse.

      •  Sorry but that makes no sense (none)
        And the order to stand down is unprecedented in any disaster in U.S. history.

        They didn't let anyone in to help, they didn't help anyone, and they didn't let people out.

        "Don't panic, the Nazis don't hate us! They just want us to get on these trains and go to their camps! Camps are fun, right?"

        No, it's time to panic, and it's time to get angry and it's time to change things.

        •  I'm talking about the order (none)
          All I'm saying is that the order on the other side of the link above didn't say "Stand Down." FEMA didn't post a "Stand Down" order on their website. The order on the website says check with us before sending all your emergency services to NO. The order on the website implies that FEMA doesn't want the entire Chicago Fire Department in NO when the next Chicago fire happens.

          The order on the website is not proof of incompetence.

          The proof of incompetence will have to be found on the ground. There's some dumbshit FEMA flacks on the ground issuing stupid orders without checking with their left hand. There's some ideological FEMA shits trying to privatize emergency response by telling flat boat operators they'll have to pay for their own gas. There's some sandlot FEMA college republicans acting tough and pretending to be big league (remember the Heritage Foundations interns who went to rebuild the Iraqi government).

          The proof of incompetence is Brownie forgeting to pay his cable bill. The proof of incompetence is waiting 5 days to bring in food and water helicopters. The proof of incompetence is in the log of the emergency services coordinator at FEMA's command post.

          •  Not Proof Of Incompetence (none)
            Proof of intent, as far as I'm concerned.  This order allows the administration and its allies to claim that Gov. Kathleen Blanco (D-LA) never made the appropriate arrangements (a claim they're now making) but Gov. Haley Barbour (R-MS) did.  

            Or, put more baldly, it lets the administration demonstrate that bad things happen to states that vote for Democrats... and people should remember that on election day.  

            Republicans would hate to see anyone get hurt.

            That's honestly the level I believe the Bush administration operates at.  No incompetence involved, at least not this time.

            Give Bush a break, he knew 9/11 was coming a lot earlier than he knew Katrina was.

            by Irfo on Mon Sep 05, 2005 at 06:39:46 PM PDT

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    •  Stand-down plus denial of aid... (4.00)
      [snip] I haven't been on dKos much so I've assumed it's already been repeatedly diaried (God forbid), but everybody knows about FEMA's stand-down order of Monday, August 29, right? [snip]

      This, coupled with years of denying SELA, NOLA, and the rest of the Coastal area necessary funds to shore up failing levees, barrier islands, etc., are the reasons I (and some others) have been calling this either genocide or first-degree murder (FDM).

      For FDM to apply, not only do you have to know that killing is wrong, but you also have to show intent (i.e. prior planning). By repeatedly denying preventative programs, usurpation of wetlands and barrier islands (further endangering an already endangered area), and numerous other actions and non-actions, they fostered an inevitable outcome. Add this with their own refusal of aid, and refusing others to provide aid, and it makes a prima facie case of intent and foreknowledge.

      For genocide to apply, you must knowingly cause the deaths of a significant number of people among a targeted group, either by direct action, or by a series of actions (or non-actions) that literally assures a deadly outcome. If the official death toll is lower than 10,000, I (and others) will have no other option but to believe that these numbers have been tampered with, same as were the votes in 2000 & 2004, but with much deadlier results.

      This was, most definitely, a crime against humanity (both genocide and FDM are crimes against humanity, but thee former is on a much larger scale).  

      Everyone who acted to obstruct aid efforts or withheld action in order to facilitate obstruction of aid efforts, while NOLA and the Coastal areas flooded, must be held accountable. The Hague is the only logical place to do it, since it is patently stupid to allow the current regime to decide if it, itself, is guilty of crimes against humanity.  That is tantamount to asking Charles Manson if he is guilty of murder, him saying 'but of course I am not guilty,' and then telling him to go on his merry way, since he must surely be innocent.

      That is not the ways such things are decided. Further, I posit that if the USA does not submit to the proper jurisdiction (UN, in this case), then the USA deserves to be a pariah nation for the rest of time. Yes, getting those responsible to trial would be horrifying and painful for our country. But if we don't do this, we deserve the same sort of condemnation the Germans endured for the atrocities committed by the Nazi's.

      And yes, there is a parallel. While the NOLA death count pales beside the concentration camp death count, the intent of the actions is the same.

      And yes, I do mean every word I say. I have never been so enraged by my government. I have never been so ashamed of my government. And I  have never been so determined that everyone responsible be held accountable. I don't want Brown's head on a platter. I want the whole damn bunch of them, from Bush down, in prison forever .


      I Support the Separation of Church and Hate...
      Rev Denise Michel
      revdenisemichel@yahoo.com

      by rev denise michel on Mon Sep 05, 2005 at 03:54:16 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Yes (none)
        remember the quote from one of the victims saying, "It's like we're being punished!"

        And now the public will be told over and over that it's the Democrats' fault.

        •  Blame and Punishment... (none)
          [snip] Yes (none / 0)

          remember the quote from one of the victims saying, "It's like we're being punished!"
          And now the public will be told over and over that it's the Democrats' fault. [snip]

          Oh yes, the Slime Machine is already hard at work -- and it only took them two days to come up with a comprehensive plan for damage control at the White House. I've already seen one site where they are showing the pic of the 100+ buses that were flooded, saying Nagin could have used them to evacuate, if he were actually competent. Um, hello, Nagin needed fuel to run those buses, and he didn't have any. He is not God (although he is probably a miracle-worker, for saving as many as he did, and for staying with citizens who were abandoned by the fed gov't), he couldn't make those buses run without fuel, and lots of it.

          I bet he will have nightmares for the rest of his life, knowing the buses were there, and knowing he couldn't get the fuel to fill them so he could save his citizens.

          As for Blanco, she did request help, on the 26th, and was told she'd only get it if she handed over control to the White House. She refused, and so, no aid was allowed to go. But if she had ceded control, they'd have put her on trial for being unfit to govern, dereliction of duty, and God only knows what else. She was damned if she did and damned if she didn't. Besides, even if she had ceded control, there were no guarantees that aid would have gotten there in time anyway (and I posit that it still would have turned out exactly the way it did).

          Whatever victim said that, s/he was absolutely correct. They were punished, and they continue to be punished. For example, a Red Cross rep told me it was official policy to not allow any victims to go into private homes. She said they have to process through Kelly USA, and they have to stay there. [emphasis mine]...

          Um, if they can't leave KUSA, how are they going to rebuild their lives, and who is going to help them? Or are they to remain permanently disenfranchised?

          She didn't have an answer for me. My, what a big surprise... {END snark, for now}...

          I Support the Separation of Church and Hate...
          Rev Denise Michel
          revdenisemichel@yahoo.com

          by rev denise michel on Tue Sep 06, 2005 at 05:49:04 PM PDT

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