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View Diary: Dry Crescent City Bridge : Keep Escaping Walkers off - shoot them. (334 comments)

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  •  I don't know (none)
    I wasn't the one who asked if Gretna was a dead end, but I asked if the town of 17,000 was equipped for the influx of 20,000-45,000 desperate survivors -- what kinds of provisions and crowd control they had in place.

    I don't know why they wouldn't let women and children through, but I also don't know what kind of personnel they had available for sorting the crowd out in that way without causing a riot and encouraging people to storm the bridge.

    I'm not denying that this could have been horrible, ugly, sickening racism at work. Easily could've been. But there's a lot I don't know about what kind of emergency personnel and facilities this small town had available, what plans they had in place for shepherding 20,000-45,000 people through their city without mayhem. I'd like to know more about those aspects of the equation.

    •  p.s. (none)
      I'd also like to know more about the geography. Now it's sounding like maybe they could've kept people marching on the freeway without letting them down into the town -- I don't know what it all looks like geographically, and whether they had enough personnel to do that. There's a lot we don't know about exactly what happened.
      •  Maybe that is why I am so pissed off (none)
        I DO know the geography.  Not only did they prevent these people from entering "their town", but prevented them from gaining access to anything beyond their little burg.
      •  Without letting them into the town... (none)
        These were desperate people in need of help. Isn't that enough to allow the color line to be crossed, just this once, just for this moment?
        •  I'm not talking about the color line (none)
          If you've read my other comments, I keep asking whether the town of 17,000 people had the resources to help a crowd of any color of 20,000 - 45,000 desperate evacuees (if all the people had walked from the Superdome over the bridge as well, which they could've, the crowd would've swelled to 45,000), and whether they had reasonable expectations of riots, looting or other mayhem if they couldn't help them.

          There may have been a lot of ways to resolve the problem of "small town + large desperate crowd," and of the available options, the police may have chosen the worst. But I'd like to know more about what their options were and why they went this way.

          •  All white racism has its roots (none)
            in fear, and just about every episode of white racism is accompanied by ajustification of that fear.

            The people desperate for help weren't "any color." They were Black. And the people blocking their way, prolonging their suffering, and perhaps contributing to the deaths of many were not "any color." They were white.

            That they were also scared--armed, uniformed men, scared--is evidence of heartlessness and racism, and should not be held up as a justification for their acts.

          •  Even if they DIDN'T have the resources ... (4.00)
            doing the right thing means letting the people through. My God, they were in the midst of a humanitarian catastrophe!

            One aspect of the Katrina disaster that has really bothered me is that it seems that every official (Federal, state, & local), when faced with uncertainty, chose the cautious option of doing nothing and protecting themselves (and their little town). Nobody seemed inclined to "march to the sound of the guns" except ordinary people who rushed in to help with their limited resources.

            Why didn't people in positions of authority say, "Maybe sending in these buses/supplies/guardsmen will add to the chaos, and maybe it is risky -- but maybe it will save some lives, and therefore is the right thing to do?" Am I just being naive here?

            "I am not a member of any organized political party. I am a Democrat." -- Will Rogers

            by Shiborg on Sat Sep 10, 2005 at 03:04:29 PM PDT

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      •  According to my map (none)
        One can walk through Jefferson Parish without getting off I-90.
        If city and parish officials really wanted to let people move through the parish without stopping, they could have just gotten a few Jefferson Transit buses running.  A few buses running all day could have gotten everyone who wanted to leave at least as far as St. Charles or Kenner.
    •  My apologies (none)
      I had been meaning to post to one of your earlier threads and I must have got it confused with another.

      As I said before, from one group that was met by the armed police of Gretna..not only were they forced to turn around, but had their water and food "confiscated".  Whoever the fuck did that is not just protecting his town, but actually doing even more damage without any regard to the people he was taking it from.


      •  I agree (none)
        And I absolutely do not defend that guy. I'd be willing to bet that a certain percentage of the guys guarding the bridge were racist creeps -- hell, maybe some of them have white hoods in their wardrobes for special occasions. I wouldn't be surprised.

        But I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that all authorities and residents involved in this fiasco, from Aaron Broussard down to the men, women and children of Gretna, was a racist pig. It could turn out that way, or it could turn out that they had a very, very serious security/crowd control problem on their hands and handled it in a half-assed way. I'd like to know more about the reasoning of all the people involved in letting it play out that way.

        •  Some objectivity is required. (4.00)
          It appears to me that, in the position of defending the indefensible, you are setting up a false dichotomy.

          Under what circumstances is it justifiable for the city of Grenta to block the execution of a state issued evacuation order?

          What accommodations, in your opinion, would be adequate for Grenta to house the evacuees crossing the bridge?

          What groups of people in critical need would you considers acceptable? Any? None?

          Would you, in the same position put yourself in a position to turn away incoming aid?

          Remember that overcrowding was one of the big problems in the Superdome. The municipality could have at least taken in a significant percentage evacuees and rendered aid.

          Until you're willing to honestly answer what the Grenta authorities were capable of handling, then you're jumping to conclusions faster than the people you are accusing of jumping to conclusions are.

          Gun control" is out of season, my friends, when your country is sliding into fascism! - proudtinfoilhat

          by HunterKiller on Sat Sep 10, 2005 at 02:29:14 PM PDT

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