Skip to main content

View Diary: Texas OK's Death Penalty for Abortion Providers (348 comments)

Comment Preferences

  •  The Texas law (4.00)
    making a fertilized egg an individual with full civil rights went into effect on September 1, 2003. As you can see, it is rigorously enforced.

    Dallas Morning News (subscription required)

    Dallas man is convicted of killing woman, fetus
    Capital murder case marks 1st time state law on embryos used

    08:42 PM CST on Friday, February 4, 2005

    A Dallas man was convicted of capital murder Friday for killing a pregnant woman under a new state statute that redefines the definition of an individual to include a fertilized egg.

    The conviction of Emmanuel Rogers marked the first time in Texas that the new statute has been used in a prosecution since the Texas penal code's definition of "individual" was redefined in September 2003. Previously, an individual was defined as someone who was born alive.

    Prosecutors Eric Mountin and Pat Kirlin argued that the shooting death of Virginia Ramirez amounted to capital murder because the 9-week-old fetus inside Ms. Ramirez's body had also died as a result of the Dec. 19, 2003, shooting.
    <...>
    Jurors indicated after their verdict that they were in agreement from the start of their deliberations that the embryo should be considered a human being under the law.

    "They weren't looking for proof that the baby was alive at the time of the mother's death," Mr. Mountin said.

     

    •  Abortions and a whole lot more (4.00)
      I watched a panel discussion on CSPAN on Friday called Democracy and Women's Rights.  The panel and the audience were women of all ages who are and have been fighting for women's rights for decades.  It was extremely powerful, they talked about the issues that women are fighting mightily to hold onto, Title IX, equal pay, sex discrimination, reproductive rights, affirmative action, Roe v. Wade and they talked about what women must do in the wake of Robert's nomination.  For women, there is no question what his confirmation will mean, that is a given at this point, but what was unanimously stated was what women have to do if we are not supported and protected by every senator in this party.  Every senator has to get it, that women's rights  are not just a cute side issue.  Also, that we are through threatening when we say we will sit home before we support another candidate or election that does not support and protect women's rights.

      The women in the audience spoke during the question and answer period.   There were women of all ages but the women who were the most impactful were in their 70s and 80s.  These women have been fighting for our rights for decades, for generations.  The general consensus is that the rightwing in BOTH parties are trying to put women back in the 20th century but further back than is usually spoken of.  They all said we will lose rights that take us back to the beginning of the 1900s, back before women had the right to vote.  

      It makes Reuel Gerecht's comments about women's rights in Iraq sound like he is some kind of visionary, we should be thrilled as American women to have it so good as we did in 1900.  

      And yet when Armando writes frontpage posts on the Roberts confirmation hearings stating that his views on Griswold and Roe v. Wade, our rights of privacy, should be the driving force behind our protests we are summarily dismissed as holding up some kind of litmus test that could kill our chances  in upcoming elections.  

      How is it that our fellow Democrats just don't get it?  Will it take the first abortion provider to be tried in a capital murder case to get their attention?  Will it be the first teenaged girl, unwed mother or Christian woman gone astray who die at the hands of a quack abortionist to get them to say perhaps they were wrong?  Will women have to be the victims of domestic abuse every 6 seconds instead of 9 seconds or will it be when Promise Keepers fill the stadiums in the millions bragging about raping their wives because they refused to obey their demands for sex?  

      Will they get it when women are dragged out of our homes because we didn't inform the government of a miscarriage we believed we had every right to keep private was discovered in our medical files?  

      When will they mourn, when it's their mothers or sisters or wives or girlfriends who die lying on the bathroom floor with a wire coat hanger in her hand?  

      WAKE UP.  You are playing with women's lives.  We are serious because we have to be.  We are watching our lives flash before our very eyes and the Democratic Party is telling us to shut up, to be nice little girls, to support them in building a big tent party full of Democrats for Life and pro-life candidates because they mean well and because it's a vote.  

      Women have a way of life to lose, we have 250 years of fighting for our rights to lose, we have our lives to lose.  If this party thinks a few votes are more important what other choice do we have but to show them our votes will win or lose elections.  Support us and you will win, sell us out to the rightwing and you will lose.  We are dead serious because we have to be otherwise we are plain dead.

      Katrina changed everything, you bet your sweet ass it did. "Women's social rights are not critical to the evolution of democracy." Reuel Gerecht

      by caliberal on Sun Sep 11, 2005 at 04:49:01 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Damn it, you did it again (4.00)
        First-class diary hidden away in the comments section. :)
        •  Ah, but look who I have for inspiration my friend (4.00)
          We women feed off of each other, it's one of the greatest rewards for being a woman, we're in stellar company, the best of the best.  

          I still don't know how you do it, day after day, you fight the good fight.  Amazing, you are, simply amazing.

          Katrina changed everything, you bet your sweet ass it did. "Women's social rights are not critical to the evolution of democracy." Reuel Gerecht

          by caliberal on Sun Sep 11, 2005 at 05:13:15 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  Brilliant post (4.00)
        Caliberal is right, you should be posting a diary on this subject. Maybe not now, when these pages are full of Katrina commentary (and rightly so), but once Roberts' confirmation is top of the news again, we need to keep hearing what's at stake. As a Canadian feminist who's fought for abortion rights in my country, I shudder at what's coming in yours. Your're right, it's vital for the left/progressive movement to understand that women's reproductive rights are central, not a side issue -- and it's vital for young women, too young to remember the first wave of this struggle, to understand just what they have to lose.
      •  Sorry, I meant (4.00)
        moiv is right, about your post, caliberal.
      •  I'm not a woman (none)
        But I agree with everything that you just described.

        My question to you is:

        How do you deal with the problem of regressive American womens' culture?

        When a significan population of women constantly judge each other's characters on the basis of overt sexuality, and then define punishment for themselves as childbirth, how can you expect legal abortion or contraception everywhere?

        When 90% of women in the US support their own right to make medical decisions regarding their own bodies, then I'll have some hope for the future of privacy in America.

        Until women stop hating each other, I'll just work to make sure that my state (NY) constitutionalizes privacy.

        You keep saying "women" in your post, as in "Women have a way of life to lose".   If you can get the women of, say, Alabama or Utah to define themselves as whole people instead of baby factories waiting for an owner, then you'll be able to refer to women across America.  

        If women stop literally buying the idea that their wedding day is the most important day of their lives, that they exist to care for others, that without relationships producing babies they are unfulfilled as people, that too much sex makes them guilty of something, then you and I might have a shot at preserving the right to private decisions about fertility.

        When women stop selling themselves out, through fundamentalism or marketing, then you can make the statement "sell us out to the rightwing and you will lose".

        Until then, talk to your sisters in Texas who obviously can't live without men telling them what to do.

        •  Okay, they want more reasons, we'll give 'em more (4.00)
          Okay Stuart, this is another way to appeal to women across the board.  Put the Democratic Party on notice that we have a golden opportunity to be the true party of national security, give women safety in their own homes, in their own parks, in their own streets, protect them from the terror of sleeping next to the men who abuse women every 9 seconds in this country and more women will support the rights of all women.

          I was raped by a family friend when I was 9 and he was 20.  His mother came home early and caught us.  She made me put my ripped and bloodied clothes back on and walk the 5 blocks to my house.  She called my mother, my mother called my father It was the only time in my childhood that my father came home from work in the afternoon.  When I walked in the door my mother and father asked me why I let him do it.  I was nine friggin' years old and not only were my parents not willing to prosecute him they were more than willing to blame and shame me.  I'm not at all surprised that juries blame the victims.  I became a Democrat that day even though I didn't yet fully realize what that meant.  What I did know was that my career politician Republican father wouldn't and couldn't protect me so I looked for a place where I could feel safer.  Rapists are held to account far less than they should be, they are convicted in small enough numbers that women and young girls feel there is little justice for them in this country.  If your own parents can't hold the man to account how can we begin to imagine 12 strangers on a jury will do the right thing?  

          In some ways it made me grow into a stronger woman.  I know it planted the seeds of women's inequality for me.  It's one of the reasons I stand up for women's rights and have since the day I was that child being assaulted.  When men like you Stuart posts comments like this I know there is change in the wind, it gives me hope.  This is what I know about the abuse of women:

          Every 9 seconds a woman is domestically abused in this country.  One in every three women will be sexually assaulted in their lifetime in this country.  There are 700,000+ reported rapes each year in this country.  One out of every four women who are raped will become pregnant.  Less than 10% of the reported rapes will end up in the courtroom.  An even smaller number of accused rapists will serve prison time.  Where is the justice for women?  

          There has been much said of the women's bloc that voted Republican because of national security, of feeling safer in the hands of Bush than with the Democratic Party. There has been talk within our party of what we should do to get those votes .  It's interesting to me that people talk of securing our borders, protecting our chemical plants and nuclear facilities and never say anything about an even bigger threat to women and that is the men who sleep next to them or walk in the same parks as them or sit in the same classrooms in colleges across this country.  We don't hear any suggestions on how to 'frame' date rape or domestic violence or how we should protect women from legislation that would take away their rights to get an abortion when they have become pregnant as a consequence of being raped or are the victims of incest.

          Doesn't it stand to reason that the greater threat to women is in their homes or on the streets where they live or in the classrooms in the colleges they attend than from an Islamic Extremist?  

          We spend hundreds of billions of dollars every year for homeland security.  What about making women more secure in their homes?  Doesn't it make sense to be the party that finally talks about violence against women in this country?  Isn't it time not only to stop blaming women but to protect women in this greatest nation on Earth?  How is it possible that we allow one in every three women to be the victims of rape?  How is it possible to turn a deaf ear every 9 seconds and allow a woman to be the victim of domestic violence?  How is it possible that we let rapists walk free in parks where women are the victims of rape?  

          We, as a party, have a chance to tell over half of the population in this country that we are the party of security, that we believe every woman deserves to be safe not just from terrorists but from the terror they live with every single day.  We should be the party that assures women this lunacy is coming to an end, that men will be held accountable for their heinous acts against women.  

          There's really no way I will feel safe in this country until someone campaigns for my safety.  When I hear a presidential candidate stand on a stage before hundreds of thousands of people and tell them their number one priority is to make women equal and safe everyday of their lives as long of they live under the red, white and blue flag that symbolizes justice for all Americans, then I will believe that women have a chance to sleep knowing they are truly out of harm's way.  I really don't think I'm alone in this, there are millions and millions of women who pray everyday for it to be the truth.

          So when we are asked if we have a litmus test that goes beyond abortion or reproductive rights we can say yes, we are the new 'national security' women voters, make us safer in our homes and then, maybe just maybe, we will trust you to make us safer when it comes to terrorism.

          Katrina changed everything, you bet your sweet ass it did. "Women's social rights are not critical to the evolution of democracy." Reuel Gerecht

          by caliberal on Sun Sep 11, 2005 at 06:49:32 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Just wondering (4.00)
            but has anyone ever told you that you're drop-dead gorgeous when you're angry, not to mention all passionate and powerful and stuff?

            You've done it again, you know, so now you've gone and broken the "one diary a day" rule.

            But I forgive you; damn, do I ever.

            •  Now you've done it, you've made me LMAO (none)
              Wow, now I'm so full of myself I'm gonna have to go out and buy a house as big as Texas to fit my head into.  Plus, you've figured me out, keep it in the comments and I can just blah blah blah all day and night.  Pssssssssst don't tell Armando I've wangled my way around the rule.  It can just be our dirty little  secret.  

              Truth be told I'm not a brave as you, writing a diary scares the heebie jeebies (sp?) out of me.  

              Katrina changed everything, you bet your sweet ass it did. "Women's social rights are not critical to the evolution of democracy." Reuel Gerecht

              by caliberal on Sun Sep 11, 2005 at 07:25:00 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

          •  thank you... (4.00)
            ...for putting it in such terms. With all the other crap going on in the U.S. during last year's election, I didn't place Women's Issues very high on the priority list. It's time I go back to putting that at the absolute top of the list, because I truly feel that if we, as women, are secure and have our civil rights intact, a lot of the other issues will take care of themselves.

            "People seem not to see that their opinion of the world is also a confession of their character."--Ralph Waldo Emerson

            by rioduran on Sun Sep 11, 2005 at 07:24:43 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  Good Answer (3.75)
            OK, first let me try to calm down from the rage that's still pounding in my ears due to the first part of your post.

            Second, let me express my profound sympathy for your experience, and tell you that to whatever degree it is possible for me to empathize with you, I'm there.

            Third, I want you to know that I'm doing whatever I can to make where I live a place where women have no fear of walking alone anywhere.  I want my little girl (if I have one) to be self-assured, confident in her ability to explore the world.  It makes me ashamed to consider having to explain to this future girl that she might be attacked because she's female. Noone ever had a conversation like that with me when I was a kid; I can't imagine what it would have done to my psyche to define myself as a potential rape victim (let alone an actual one).  

            Whoops, again with that rage.

            I can't apologize enough to you (and my girlfriend, and other women) on behalf of men who don't see women as prey or children to be corporally disciplined or games to be won (by fucking them) for what the other men have done and continue to do.

            We have a lot to answer for, us men.  Rape shouldn't exist, it's a holocaust, a war crime.

            But to your point about "security moms" and a "domestic" security agenda:

            Isn't part of the problem that the security moms you speak of view themselves as traditional women, women who need/expect to be protected from "bad men" by "good men" (father/husband)?

            Would it make more sense not to pander to the worst of what women have internalized about themselves, i.e. that they're weak and incapable of self-sufficiency?

            I want my little girl to start karate at age 5.  I want my little girl to see herself as a smaller boy might see himself, i.e. willing to get his nose bloodied in order to prove he's not afraid of a fight.  I don't want my little girl to not stand up for herself.  I don't want her to grow up to be a security mom.

            Obviously you are again correct with respect to wanting to be a member of the party that ends everyday violence against women once and for all.
            If anyone ever said the last seven paragraphs of your post in a political speech, I'd vote for that candidate (if I liked what policies they put forward to solve the problem) in a heartbeat.  I'd do a lot to get them elected, no matter what party they represented.

            But again, is this really the agenda of women across the country?  Why isn't this polled as the number one issue for half of the country?  I can tell you right now that if I lived in the kind of everyday fear that women do, hell, if I even got the kind of looks that women get walking down the sidewalk, I'd be yelling about it.  If I had to worry about where I was and how late at night it was and what I was wearing because of who I am, I'd get everybody like me to make this the biggest problem in the world for local, state and national people in charge.  If I found out that a majority of people were actually in the same position, and that they had lived with this for years, I would be in the streets with them.

            Why don't other women do this?  Is it the same reason that they can't stand up for each other's right to recover gracefully from unprotected sex?   Is it the same reason that they can't seem to pass an equal rights amendment?  Is it the same reason that they judge each other by the way that they look?  

            Is the problem really that women don't see themselves as being responsible for protecting themselves at all?  Are security moms really concerned about Daddy/George W/Republicans making the world safe for them...or them and their children?

            Women don't teach each other the skills to defend themselves, the rules of agression/domination/threats, the necessity of conflict, the role of honor.  Women don't have a culture that promotes the idea that they're responsible for themselves (or each other in this way).

            Now don't think that I'm talking about a nine year-old defending herself against a twenty year-old.  Please don't get me wrong at all.  I'm not hear to blame women for being victims whatsoever.  But it seems to me that you folks have a lot of work to do addressing the problems in your own culture that create identities of dependency.  

            In the meantime, I'll work on getting the culture of men to include respect for women who do stand up for themselves.

            Honestly, I will.  I try every day.

            •  Sorry, (4.00)
              ...not HERE to blame women for being victims.

              BTW, this is a really great diary you've started here.

              ...and has to be said that it is true--you are gorgeous when you're powerfull-passionate-articulate.  Just had to be said, there.

              •  Whoa, fasten your seat belt (none)
                I didn't take it as blaming women.  When we write about women being abused, raped, assaulted or murdered there really aren't a lot of words to choose from.  We are victims at that point.  I refuse to victimize them any further though by judging how they deal with the abuse.  Just like there are a million stories of victimization, there are a million ways to go on.  It's not for anyone to judge in my book.  You didn't do that.  

                and has to be said that it is true--you are gorgeous when you're powerfull-passionate-articulate.  Just had to be said, there.

                Damn, you're not just wow, you're smart as Hell too.  Madman, Meteor Blade and Armando are going to have to make room, there's a new member of the 'Kos women love these men club.'  Fasten your seat belt, it's going to be a bumpy ride.  

                Watch out now, this woman was born to flirt and rabble-rouse.

                Katrina changed everything, you bet your sweet ass it did. "Women's social rights are not critical to the evolution of democracy." Reuel Gerecht

                by caliberal on Sun Sep 11, 2005 at 09:00:45 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

            •  We're all in this together, each and everyone (4.00)
              Wow, Stuart, just wow.  Not very eloquent I know but so many of the things you said are spot on.

              Thank you for your words about the rape.  I've had years to heal from it, I started therapy when I was in my early twenties, I realized I wanted and deserved to have a good life, a full life, a healthy sex life and was very fortunate to find good therapists to work with.   I wish the same was true for all girls and women who go through this kind of trauma.   In a nation of 390 million people, half of them female, and a country where one in every three women will have been the victims of rape, it is staggering just how many women that is.  It is also an outrage that nothing has been done to stop or greatly reduce this heinous statistic.  It is a disgrace, every person in this country should live with the shame of such brutality.

              People are shocked and horrified by the visions of NO and how closely our country resembled a third world country, and rightfully so.   What is also shocking and horrifying is how close we are to some third world countries in the numbers of rapes and violence that happen every single day in this country.  Every 9 seconds a woman or girl is the victim of domestic violence.  That doesn't count how many women are violated and victims of violence by strangers.  

              In the time it takes us to write responses to each other's comments think about how many women have been beaten, murdered or raped.  It is so far from any kind of justice we say every American is entitled to it's beyond the pale of what should be allowed or condoned but condone it we do with each passing 9 seconds of the clock.  Write a sentence, another woman dies.  Write one more, another woman is in an ambulance on her way to the hospital.  Write one more, another child hears their mother beaten black and blue.  In what world is that acceptable?  

              That brings us to another point of yours.  You ask why women don't stand up for each other.  There are millions of women who speak out, women who fight every single day for women, in shelters, in churches, in Mosques, in our homes.  Women don't have a voice in this country so alot of it is done away from the spotlight but we are out there.  Another reason is because there are so many women who suffer everyday from this kind of violence.  It covers every ethnic group, every age, every economic level.  It's in the poorest parts of the country and the richest parts.  It's in our grammar schools, junior high, high schools and colleges.  It's in the workplace, in the doctor's offices, in the parks, in our homes.  It's our babies up to our elders.  

              There is fear to keep us from talking.  There is shame, there is the vow of silence, there is embarassment, there is retribution.  There are the prayers and the wishes for it to stop.  There is denial.  There is not wanting to rock the boat or the belief, real or imagined, that we can't make it on our own.  There are economics, poverty, our children, our skill level or lack thereof, there is the fact that many women are told they will be killed if they leave.  

              I have been so blessed with the women who surround me.  I don't know of much of what you speak, I don't know women who hate each other.  I haven't worked around women who are jealous or cruel to each other.  I haven't been harshly judged or made to feel less than.  I live in a world where women learn how to protect themselves.  I live around women who speak freely of the plight of women, we support each other, we house each other, we feed each other, we look out for each other.  I'm blessed to be in that circle of girlfriends who honestly don't know what we would do without each other.  Even on Kos there is a group of women who are each others touchstones.   Women who inspire each other to be better, to do better, to congratulate one another or to reach out a hand for a friend in need.  

              I started fighting for the ERA forty years ago.  It is still a deeply held belief that women deserve and must have equality in the Constitution.  I honestly don't know why it has never passed Congress to make it to the states for ratification since 1972.  It's another disgrace in my eyes.  It goes beyond reason why women would vote against it but I have a hope that if it's true that extremism and the pendulum having swung so far to the right, is the perfect time to wage another war for it, then I'm ready.  I am a stalwart believer that many issues would fall into place if it were unconstitutional for them not to.

              My hope is also that there are more women who stand up for themselves than don't but for those that don't or don't see the value in other women, all I can say is we will fight for them also because it's what women who do do.  I have to believe also that if we are vocal, if we refuse to shut up, if we offer safety and security, if we continue to reach out those women who live behind their fear will know they have a place to go, those women who live a lie behind a gated community will know we are waiting for them, women who live in quiet desperation will know we will continue to speak out for them until they are ready to speak for themselves.  It's all about not giving up, for ourselves and for each other.  That's all we have afterall, is each other.  Welcome to our club Stuart, we've been waiting for you also.

              Katrina changed everything, you bet your sweet ass it did. "Women's social rights are not critical to the evolution of democracy." Reuel Gerecht

              by caliberal on Sun Sep 11, 2005 at 08:47:54 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  And a heartfelt wow for you, too (none)
                I was sitting here mulling over how to respond to Stuart's post, when you said what I wanted to, and far more eloquently than I would have. Great to read some good old-fashioned righteous feminism, and from such an effective writer.

                Thanks, also, for trusting us with that searing personal testimony. I'm deeply grateful and moved to have read your story.

                Don't ever stop speaking out.

                •  Damn, we're good (none)
                  Thank you for such kind words.  I found such hope in Stuarts posts tonight.  He questions so much, is so willing to ask, and he's hungry for answers.  I find it heartening when men want to understand so badly they dare to speak up.  

                  Another old fashioned feminist, Dorothy Allison, wrote, "Stories are the one sure way to touch the heart and change the world." It's the best of what I have to give, my truth, my story.  It's really as simple as that.  

                  I have a feeling we've got another great and righteous feminist onboard.  It's wonderful to have you.  I especially enjoyed this from you in another post.

                  Deck the halls with Boston Charlie
                  Walla Walla, Wash, and Kalamazoo.
                  Nora's riding on a trolley,
                  Swaller holler cauliflower alley garoo!

                  Don't we know archaic barrel
                  Lullaby, lily boy, Louisville Lou,
                  Trolley Molly don't love Harold
                  Pensacola boolah boolah Hullabaloo!

                  What's a night without some good ole' girl time pee pee laughter?  Damn, we're good.  

                  Katrina changed everything, you bet your sweet ass it did. "Women's social rights are not critical to the evolution of democracy." Reuel Gerecht

                  by caliberal on Sun Sep 11, 2005 at 11:38:35 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

              •  Thanks for the Welcome (none)
                It's good to find someone to fight along side of.

                Thanks for your thoughts and words; I'll take them, think about them, and talk about them with others.

                I also need to research exactly why whatever policies and statutes we have here in NYC don't work with respect to protecting women (and whether or not those policies fail because they fail to address womens' cultural issues).  

                This can only help, I hope.

                Thanks again, see you around here.

                •  StruartZ (none)
                  Are you reachable by email? Not sure this is proper Kos etiquette, I'm still just a proby around here, but I can't stop thinking about your posts here, and I would love to talk to you directly about the questions you raise. I think I've got too much to say to fit comfortably into this thread, so let me know if you feel like continuing the conversation.

                  And let me echo Caliberal, and say it's great to see men taking these questions seriously.

                  •  BC (none)
                    I'm not sure about proper Kos etiquette either, but:

                    stuartzmailbox-dailykos@yahoo.com.

                    re: "...it's great to see men taking these questions seriously"

                    I'm just concerned; it seems natural to me.

                    What's on your mind?

          •  goosebumps all over (none)
            everywhere.  thanks for that, you are right on target.
        •  it's strange, but that's an old problem... (none)
          ....i was just a little kid, maybe 10 or 12 years old, when feminists were trying to get the ERA passed. I went around door to door with my mom, trying to get signatures to a petition. we encountered more than a few women who were exceptional back then for being quite independent and "liberated," yet reacted violently to the thought of an actual amendment guaranteeing equal rights to women. my mom called this type of woman an "aunt tomasina."

          years later, i knew a woman who was the former mayor of a small wyoming town. she had never married, owned her own ranch, and had made a very comfortable life for herself. she was missing her left hand, from a calf-roping mishap, and she was tougher than nails. one day we got into a heavy discussion about feminism. she scoffed at the idea and told me that she'd never needed any "special rights;" she just did what she wanted and to hell with anyone who didn't approve. she claimed that asking for rights put a person at a disadvantage from the very start and that it was better just to assume you had the right to do anything you wanted to do.

          not too many years after that, i read an obituary when actor john wayne died. he was quoted as saying his motto in life was, "never complain, never explain."

          i kinda tie all this in together....

          the fundies might find a way to overturn roe v. wade, but women will always find a way to do what they feel needs to be done. if, tragically, we go back to a point of a growing number of fatal abortions the public-tolerance-pendulum will swing back the other way.

          There are many who lust for the simple answers of doctrine or decree. They are on the left and right. They are terrorists of the mind. -- A. Bartlett Giamatti

          by FemiNazi on Mon Sep 12, 2005 at 02:03:08 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  Excellent comment. n/t (4.00)

        Thirty-one million new blogs are created each year. Try ours at The Next Hurrah.

        by Meteor Blades on Sun Sep 11, 2005 at 07:38:54 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

Subscribe or Donate to support Daily Kos.

Click here for the mobile view of the site