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View Diary: Bryan Kennedy: Democratic Challenger to Sensenbrenner (87 comments)

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  •  Dude, you're harshing my worldview (none)
    But yeah, racism and sexism did coexist too happily with 19th and 20th century socialism, unionism and progressivism, and some would say continue to to this day.

    However, those movements also did a lot to foster protections against discrimination, despite the bigotry of many of their members and leaders.

    "Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin

    by Septic Tank on Thu Sep 15, 2005 at 09:38:59 AM PDT

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    •  Not in Milwaukee (none)
      the home of socialism -- but, again, a far different form of socialism than elsewhere.  

      And far different, again, from progressivism.  It did include fights against discrimination.

      And the two groups rarely got together, btw.  Milwaukee voted against Madison much of the time.  

      Germans and Scandinavians were the strongest vote blocs against civil rights and women's rights in Wisconsin.  The argument just doesn't hold at the microlevel.  Have you lived here?

      And I'm not a dude.

      "Let all the dreamers wake the nation." -- Carly Simon

      by Cream City on Thu Sep 15, 2005 at 09:58:05 AM PDT

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      •  Only for 19 years (none)
        in Kenosha and Racine. And I wasn't asserting that you were a dude, in the gendered or the fake cowboy sense. It was purely for tone.

        But as you clearly know the arcana of our state's historical leftish movements better than I, I'll defer to your expertise and accept that Milwaukee socialists were more national than social.  

        "Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin

        by Septic Tank on Thu Sep 15, 2005 at 10:27:45 AM PDT

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        •  Ah, I've got a few more decades than that here (none)
          and study this stuff.

          Not that I'd say they were "national."

          They were -- simply, a form of socialism unto themselves, and sometimes worked against progressives . . . and remain an oddity, if a fascinating one, in part because of the Berger mindset.  Victor Berger, that is.

          For a different mindset within his own household, especially on women's rights, see his wife's story -- The Autobiography of a Milwaukee Woman on the Left, by Meta Berger (ed. Kimberly Swanson).  See also the book Belle, on Belle Case La Follette by hers and Bob's descendants.  If you really get into it, see also Nancy Unger's article on Belle in the new book Women's Wisconsin.

          Women's Wisconsin, African Americans' Wisconsin -- it was and is a different Wisconsin than it seems to so many who believe the best pr job in history, that Wisconsin is or ever was a truly progressive state, that Milwaukee is or ever was a truly socialist city. . . .

          "Let all the dreamers wake the nation." -- Carly Simon

          by Cream City on Thu Sep 15, 2005 at 11:15:14 AM PDT

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          •  PR, yes (none)
            But creation myths come in handy for movements of all stripes, don't they? After all, if the GOP could convince America that the 1920s were heaven on earth, before those hippie trade unionists spoiled everything, why shouldn't we insist that Milwaukee was a red paradise until Reagan blew through and ruined everything?

            I mean, besides the falsehood and the papering over internal divisions in a coalition that is no more?

            "Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin

            by Septic Tank on Thu Sep 15, 2005 at 11:47:38 AM PDT

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            •  Ah! Well, yes, we could join the city fathers (none)
              in their fablemaking.

              Okay, Milwaukee was a commie paradise of reds and pinkos under their babushkas.  And everybody, black or white, got along great.  And those were the days!

              "Let all the dreamers wake the nation." -- Carly Simon

              by Cream City on Thu Sep 15, 2005 at 08:19:41 PM PDT

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