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View Diary: A Big Tent? (289 comments)

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  •  Huh? (none)
    "We have been hurt by the idea that we should 'reach out' to the centrists and conservatives."

    How so??

    Darned if I can find it now on the Internet, but only 21% of voters polled during the 2004 Election identified themselves as 'liberals' (32 % or therabouts said they were 'conservatives' and the rest said they were 'moderates').  

    If Bill Maher knows where these alleged millions of liberals are, I wish he'd tell us.  If they couldn't get up of the couch to vote against Bush in '04, when will they ever come out and vote??!!  

    I don't think it's possible to win elections without the votes of 'centrists".  McGovern and Mondale went down in flames.  Clinton won by courting the centrists (and Gore did, too).      

    •  well (4.00)
      MOST Americans like the 40 hour work week, they want health care, they like that the government should be keeping the air clean, medicines safe, cars and other products safe. They want social security to continue.

      Those are liberal values. Those polls are worthless ... the words have been poisoned by decades of fucked-up political debate: a radical reactionary right with NO real political opposition.

      •  No... (none)
        those are "centrist" values. They USED to be "liberal" values, until we kicked some serious ass on them. Then they became "centrist" values. If they go back to being "liberal" values then we are fucked. As soon as Rove starts calling anything "liberal" we need to start calling it "centrist"

        Come get lost in our world: www.politicsandletters.com

        by MonkeyDog102 on Tue Sep 20, 2005 at 04:25:46 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  What people call themselve and what they are (none)
      are two different things.  Those poll results are not surprising considering the way the word has been vilified.  However the values are shared by the majority of people.
      So democrats need to articulate those liberal values if they are going to ever be in control again.

      Or we could continue to try and win over 15 guys in the middle who don't care about abortion anyway.... and keep losing.

      Liberal, Christian, Feminazi, Mom.

      by TeresaInPa on Tue Sep 20, 2005 at 04:43:53 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  But (none)
        I really don't think we're losing because we're trying to "win over the 15 guys in the middle."  Both Clinton (and, technically, Gore) won by appealing to the middle.  Kerry lost because he and his idiot advisors (Shrum et al) allowed Rove to paint him as a flip-fopping liberal even though Kerry was NOT a liberal in the 60's and 70's sense of the word (e.g., Kerry voted for Clinton's welfare reform package which, in my view, was a "centrist" policy philosophically different from the "liberal" Democratic policies of the '60's-'80's.  "Liberal" has a bad connotation not just because the right-wing nut jobs have "vilified" it, but because some "liberal" Great Society programs were abject failures and the "liberal" wing of the Dem Party has been a bit slow to come to grips with that fact.  

        The weird thing about this thread, and the hub-bub about abortion within the Democratic Party, is that the abortion issue does NOT cause us to lose elections!!  Most people don't vote based on their views about abortion!  If we culd better reach "moderate" voters on "meat and potatoes" issues (like those listed by the poster above you in his first paragraph), we'd be winning elections by 60%.  If Kerry hadn't run such a incredibly inept campaign, he'd be President now and would be appointing Rhenquist's successor and we wouldn't have to worry about Roe v. Wade.    

         

      •  Hey... (none)
        we actually agree on something. Go figure.

        Come get lost in our world: www.politicsandletters.com

        by MonkeyDog102 on Tue Sep 20, 2005 at 04:26:56 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

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