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View Diary: September dKos Straw Poll results (417 comments)

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  •  dead right on everything except (none)
    (Feingold spelling and)
    surely you're joking when you say you'd vote for Hillary even if it was obvious she'd lose.

    More of us here have to think outside the box.  In a Cheney/Hillary race, their bases are about 20% each, tops.  Beyond that, any vote for either of them would simply be a vote against the other one.

    In this context, any sane candidate targeting the 60% who think we should have fewer troops in Iraq would win.  If there's any vestige of democracy in the U.S., we can predict a landslide without even knowing the candidate's name.

    Are you really saying you would abandon your principles to obey your party?

    •  Wow (none)
      If you think only 20% of the people in this country believe in Hillary Clinton, you are way, way off.
      •  No, let's calculate it: (none)
        50% are Republicans who hate her more than death.
        Of the other 50%, about 80% of Democrats want us pulling troops out of Iraq.  If Iraq is important, that puts her support level at around 10% - just what this poll is showing.

        Of course, we see people who fear Republicans and Cheney who say they'd vote for her if forced, but that's very different from real support - more like another close race with too-similar candidates and a 2004 outcome.

        That's exactly why my main point about an 'outside the box' candidate - the point you're avoiding - is so important.

        •  This is so simplistic (none)
          Your assumptions are:

          1. Every single person who voted for Bush, without exception, despises Hillary.

          2. Every single Democrat who wants to withdraw from Iraq also opposes Hillary as President.

          These are just such amazingly simplistic assumptions that I don't know where to begin.

          First of all, just because someone isn't your #1 choice doesn't mean you wouldn't support them for President.  Personally, I would support almost anyone listed, if they ended up as the nominee.

          Second, even if you think everyone hates each and every candidate other than their #1 choice, national polls show Hillary as the #1 Democratic choice of about 40% of respondents.  I think the reasons for the disparity between national polls and dkos polls are quite obvious, and there is no reason to think dkos provides a better sampling of America.

          Plenty of people who don't know much about politics, but know that they're not happy with the Bush Administration, think Hillary would be a perfectly fine alternative.  I'm not trying to prove she's the best choice, but your numbers are just absurd.

          •  of course it's simplified (none)
            But there are also a dozen other good reasons listed here that traditional Democrats despise Hillary - including plenty who were big Clinton fans just a few years ago!  So the fact that it's more complicated cuts both ways.

            You don't think Hillary is probably the Democrat most most reviled by Republicans?  C'mon.  The tragic thing is, her right-tacking has probably earned her about 4 votes.

            So even if I was off by a factor of 2, people who believe in democracy, or want to win, should be looking at candidates who actually represent the majority on Iraq and other issues.  Is this even worthy of consideration?

            Or we so cynical and so partisan that we'd prefer rather have a Democrat than democracy?

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