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View Diary: A Baucus Betrayal (433 comments)

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  •  Not that there's (4.00)
    such a thing for him to invoke.  This ain't Europe, folks.
    •  Wrong (2.50)

      None Dare Call It Stupid!

      by RonK Seattle on Tue Sep 20, 2005 at 06:59:16 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  RonK is 100% correct (3.62)
        Reid explicitly said that Dem Senators should "vote their conscience," which means no party discipline will be imposed on this vote.  A vote for Roberts is therefore very much not a slap in Reid's face.  It may be wrong politically and morally, but it's definitely not a sign of disresepct towards Reid.

        Oh when the frogs. . Come marching in. . Oh when the FROGS COME MARCH-ING IN!

        by pontificator on Tue Sep 20, 2005 at 07:07:50 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  but it is a sign of disrespect (3.33)
          to the Democratic party. And what it's SUPPOSED to stand for.

          remember your humanity, and forget the rest

          by human on Tue Sep 20, 2005 at 07:14:46 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Totally Agree (none)

            If you tell the truth you don't have to remember anything-Mark Twain

            by Desert Rose on Tue Sep 20, 2005 at 07:56:05 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  Oh, please. (2.83)
            What happened to supporting Dems because they're Dems? I was pilloried on this site by Kos himself and others when I slammed Stepahnie what's her cooch from South Dakota for voting against gay rights.

            What happened? You guys don't make sense anymore.

            Sail on, sail on, o mighty Ship of State!
            To the Shores of Need
            Past the Reefs of Greed
            Through the Squalls of Hate.

            by Attorney at Arms on Tue Sep 20, 2005 at 09:15:07 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  Agreed that it is disrespect (none)
            But not just to the party, it is a disrespect to the Constitution and the Senate. Like Kos said, there's no way Baucus knows what kind of a justice Roberts would be.

            Maybe Roberts zapped Baucus with those robot eyes of his. The guy could stare down a locomotive.

            River City Mud Bugle -- A progressive news blog in Memphis, Tennessee

            by autoegocrat on Wed Sep 21, 2005 at 03:30:38 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  Bacus should have kept it to himself (none)
            Why didn't Baucus just keep his mouth shut and vote his conscionce - without making a public display out of disagreeing with Reid?

            Letter to Baucus:

            Dear Senator Baucus,
            How could you support John Roberts  when documents have been withheld by the Wite House?
            Don't you think they were withheld for a reason?
            Don't you think the Bush Administration is abusing its power by stone walling?
            Don't you think the people of Montana Deserve to know what kind of scotus judge John Roberst would be?

            And to top all of that off you make your announcement on the same day as Harry Reid  - you could have saved your opinion until the vote. Why do you even call yourself a Democrat?
            It is clear you are not working in the average working peoples best interests, as a true Democrat would.

            •  A response... (none)
              How could you support John Roberts  when documents have been withheld by the Wite House?
              Because Roberts is a well qualified judge...the documents withheld were the subject of atty-client and executive privilege-Democratic Administrations have fought to protect these same privileges

              Don't you think they were withheld for a reason? See above-it is important to all administrations to protect the privilege

              Don't you think the Bush Administration is abusing its power by stone walling? See above-(We also don't get to see all the memos Roberts wrote for private clients  Nor did we get to see everything Ginsburg wrote in her career)

              Don't you think the people of Montana Deserve to know what kind of scotus judge John Roberst would be?-Baucus told us his conclusion that Roberts is a really smart judge who will be impartial.  What you really want is someone on the Supreme court who will be your bitch.  Someone who will tell the Senate-in advance-what his or her expected rulings will be on any case of importance that may come before the Court.  Call it a potfolio of advisory opinions.  You want advanced promises that the nominee will prejudge issues and give you promises that you will always get the ultimate result you want.  Armandos' rant doesn't tell us Roberts' views are intellectually flawed, deceptive, or otherwise objectionable on any basis other than outcome.  Baucus recognizes his role as a Senator is to provide informed advice and consent, not to substitute his political choices for that of the executive.  

              •  Withheld documents (none)
                The papers I am interested in were the ones written when Roberts was working for the American Public so there was no attorny client privledge.

                He was working for me and I would like to see them!

              •  Senator - Democratic (none)
                "What you really want is someone on the Supreme court who will be your bitch."

                No.
                And bitch is rather massagonist term - you loose your credibility by resorting to adolesecent mentality.

                What I want is to Have Democratic Senators do their duty to the Demicratic people - Me.

                I simply stated that Baucus should have voted his conscience on the day the vote comes up - what is wrong with him standing up and acting like a Republican Lemming.

                •  point well taken... (none)
                  bitch can be perceived as immature--although in common useage now it refers to males and females alike.  I'll use "toady" instead--I think you get my meaning.  
                  Baucus has told us he will vote his conscience and approve Roberts--the very point of Armandos' post was his anger that Baucus wasn't lockstep with the "leadership" vote offered by Reid-that he was a backstabber precisely because he didn't behave like a good little lemming and follow Reid.
                  •  Biden & Kennedy (none)
                    I actually saw Roberts not directly answer fair ansimple questions presented by Senator Biden & Kennedy. Roberts will be in charge of the 3rd branch for LIFE. We deserve straight answers and papers that are the possesion of the american people.

                    Armando can be very upset - and I can be less upset - maybe Roberts will be GREAT - but I would not gamble on it.

                    What I am Very upset about is Baucus - lets say he really beleves this is the best thing for the People of Montana(which I don't really think he does) but givein the benefit of doubt - Baucus has an obligation to the Democratic Party - which he willfully chose to be part of - that obligation is to keep his mouth shut (esp. on same day as Senator Reid) then go in and make his vote with out any fanfare.

        •  Incorrect (4.00)
          Reid is not enforcing "party discipline" because he WANTS Roberts confirmed.  Recall that before the hearings Reid heaped praise on Roberts, holding back only slightly.  He was sending a signal to the Republicans: I'll support Roberts, but I have to vote against him myself.

          Reid is a fake Democrat, as are many others, like Baucus.  By not enforcing party discipline, Reid allows ass-wipes like Baucus to wave their pathetic flag as if confirming Roberts is some sort of patriotism issue.

          Meanwhile, Reid himself takes cover behind his "no" vote, protecting himself from personal criticism.

          Isn't he clever?

          If impeachment doesn't work, how about radiation and chemotherapy?

          by jimbo92107 on Tue Sep 20, 2005 at 09:44:27 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  what's the point of a dem party if no discipline? (none)
          Cut all fundings to Dem reps who won't toe the line.  It's time for some goddamn discipline.
    •  Nor is it the (none)
      House of Representatives

      Visit RemoveRepublicans.com and follow every 2006 Senate race.

      by AnthonySF on Tue Sep 20, 2005 at 09:12:59 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Big problem for dealing with -2nd- nominee (none)
           if we don't mount a filibuster, at least for one round or so, (if not to the bitter end).

        It's a miscalculated strategy.  I just figured out a very immediate problem (like a time-bomb) with this no-party-discipline strategy that's emerging, and I wrote it up here.

        Reid's heart is in the right place, and what he did today was a good first step, but I explain why we need to firmly oppose, and use our minority power.
        If we don't use it for Roberts, we won't be able to use it for the next one.  Full explanation at link.

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