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View Diary: A Response to TeacherKen and Dailykos Community (357 comments)

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  •  The Teachers Unions fight (none)
    tooth and nail to oppose any plan that creates a significant pay disparity between teachers even when there is a huge difference in education level and qualifications.  
    •  Wrong (none)
      Every contract I ever seen compensates teachers based on the level of their degree.

      Don't Panic - Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy

      by slatsg on Sun Oct 09, 2005 at 10:13:51 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •   "a significant pay disparity" (none)
        A difference in $1k a year between a BA and an MA or and MA or PhD is not significant.
        •  I guess it depends... (none)
          on your definition of significant. Around here the difference between a BA and MA is about 10%. It is significant enough so that over half of our staff have obtained their MA.

          Don't Panic - Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy

          by slatsg on Sun Oct 09, 2005 at 11:09:43 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  10% certainly is significant (none)
            Is there a differential between MA and PhD or 2 MA's etc?
            •  MA plus 20 (none)
              Nothing for PhD, but it's not something that is a real concern at a small rural school. We could probably have it in the contract, but it's a moot point since no one has a PhD.

              Don't Panic - Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy

              by slatsg on Sun Oct 09, 2005 at 01:18:46 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  I am paid for masters + 60 (none)
              (I have two masters and part of a doctorate) and the additional pay for the doctorate woudl be less than $700/year.

              There is some argument for some level of diferential for continuing one's education  -- all of us as teachers need to be thinking about what we do.  I am not sure that formal education should be the only measure  -- presenting to other teachers when one is successful and/or and expert shoudl possibly also qualify.

              I haved no trouble putting all issues on the table.
                What I object to is to only examine those things that might disadvantage teachers, and not those that might benefit them.  I object to placing all of the responsibility on teachers and none on families, communities, inappropriate legislative mandates, etc.  

              Those who can, do. Those who can do more, TEACH!

              by teacherken on Sun Oct 09, 2005 at 01:37:22 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  How do you feel about differential pay? (none)
                Different pay for different, harder to fill subjects.  Math and science?
                •  opposed (none)
                  education is not a market situation.   For one thing, we have to educate anyone who shows up.   For another, that presumes that science and math are more valuable than language or social studies or music and art.   I don't agree.   For another, you lose many GOOD social studies and english teachers already because of pay ..  go to the differential and you will tell them their efforts don't matter, and you will begin losing many more....

                  it may come to that, but it woujld be a mistake   --  we need to educate far more people to be competent in language and to understand our system of government to be good citizens.  The assumption that everyone needs to be highly educated in math and science is arguable at best.  That everyone needs to be able to speak, read and write clearly is undeniable.  

                  Those who can, do. Those who can do more, TEACH!

                  by teacherken on Sun Oct 09, 2005 at 02:29:06 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

          •  Then over half your staff better plan on (none)
            retiring from your district.  Proven teachers with advanced degrees and tons of experience who move to another district for whatever reason, or return to America after many years with the Department of Defense Dependent Schools are likely to find themselves unemployable.  School districts regularly pass over the best teachers available to hire the cheapest, that is, the recent graduate with little to no experience.
            •  Very True (none)
              I started teaching at a residential school.  Another woman started with me.  The residential school had full tuition reimbursement with no cap.  I left, but the other teacher stayed while she got her Master's.  By the time she left, she had six years of teaching and a Master's in her field.

              She was told over and over that she was unhirable.  They couldn't afford her.  She ended up landing a job in a wealthy district working with hard-to-reach kids due to her experience in residential, but what she really wants is a classroom teacher position in her subject area.

              It's the money.

    •  Source? (none)
      Please provide a source for your argument. Specifically, a link to a news story where a teacher's union has opposed paying teachers with advanced degrees more than those without.
      •  "a significant pay disparity" (none)
        A difference in $500-$1K a year between a BA and an MA or and MA or PhD is not significant.  In Contra Costa County, CA where the teachers union is quite powerful, the difference between a BA and an MA is $600 a year and the difference between and MA and PhD is $300.  Not significant.
    •  Those damned Teachers Unions (none)
      Without teacher unions, we would be earning about 50% less than we do now. Why do you think that the conservatives are promoting the privatization of public schools? If they get their way, another group of workers will be pauperized.

      Don't Panic - Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy

      by slatsg on Sun Oct 09, 2005 at 11:16:25 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Will be? (none)
        "If they get their way, another group of workers will be pauperized."

        I kind of think teachersas a group, in many places, especially early in their career, already are pauperized.

        •  Pauperization (none)
          After never making more than $35,000 a year as a copy editor with nearly 10 years of experience (and spending two full years unable to find any work in my field), the $40,000 I make as a first-year teacher with a master's feels pretty cushy to me.

          Only problem is, the cheapest one-bedroom condos in my neighborhood are priced around $185,000. Frankly, I have no idea who's buying these things.

          "The great lie of democracy, its essential paradox, is that democracy is first to be sacrificed when its security is at risk." --Ian McDonald

          by Geenius at Wrok on Sun Oct 09, 2005 at 08:27:07 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  When I taught (none)
      our contract had about a 2:1 ratio between the top level and the bottom level by experience and about a 15% differential between bachelors and masters degrees. That was vo-tech, and relevant work experience could push you up the pay scale too - I started somewhere in the middle.

      If you think dealing with school adminstrators is difficult when you're a student or parent, try working for them. Without strong teachers unions, the educational system would be a lot worse than it is.

      We all go a little mad sometimes - Norman Bates

      by badger on Sun Oct 09, 2005 at 12:20:13 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

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