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View Diary: Ari Fleischer Is The One Who Has Flipped (Here's Why) Isikoff UPDATE (279 comments)

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  •  Though (none)
    He read the INR memo which mentioned Plame and her secret status while on AF1.

    Plus, Novak is on record, while in the process of writing the notorious article, as having tried to call Fleischer days before he talked with Rove. It's not known whether or not he ever did get in touch with Fleischer.

    He had the access, and could have been prompted by earlier discussions to attack and leak to Novak anything discrediting Wilson.

    "Mr. Bush's relationship to the environment is roughly that of a doctor to a patient--when the doctor's name is Kevorkian." Bob Herbert, NYT

    by jorndorff on Mon Oct 17, 2005 at 05:22:28 PM PDT

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    •  re (none)
      thanks.

      I was kinda thinking along the lines of how deeply this gets fritz into WHIG. Because the prize for taking down WHIG is Cheney.

      Steve Holt says "Steve Holt!"

      by cookiesandmilk on Mon Oct 17, 2005 at 05:25:19 PM PDT

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      •  WHIG (4.00)
        I think the WHIG will still be a focus either way. If Fleischer is the first source, there remained a very co-ordinated attempt to attack Wilson. Fleischer, though not in the WHIG, may have acted on those conspired orders.

        "Mr. Bush's relationship to the environment is roughly that of a doctor to a patient--when the doctor's name is Kevorkian." Bob Herbert, NYT

        by jorndorff on Mon Oct 17, 2005 at 05:29:18 PM PDT

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        •  re (none)
          thanks! that's what i wanted to here. SO basically it looks like if Ari was acting "on their orders" then he will backflipp all the way inside WHIG.

          good enough for a monday!

          bring on the tues episode of "As the White House Chuns"

          Steve Holt says "Steve Holt!"

          by cookiesandmilk on Mon Oct 17, 2005 at 05:33:36 PM PDT

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          •  If (none)
            he flipped and flipped completely, then this has the potential to bring conspiracy charges to a lot of administration officials. If Fleischer testified that he leaked because there was a concentrated WH attempt to discredit Wilson, then it may spread to more people than those in the WHIG (depending on who was in on it and who Fleischer knew was in on it).

            That is, assuming Fleischer is the source, etc. etc.

            "Mr. Bush's relationship to the environment is roughly that of a doctor to a patient--when the doctor's name is Kevorkian." Bob Herbert, NYT

            by jorndorff on Mon Oct 17, 2005 at 05:36:47 PM PDT

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        •  But . . . . (none)
          Questions:

          Did Ari even have a SECRET security clearance?

          Did they (WHIG) give it to him with the express orders to leak Plame's status?  If so, I am more of the mind that that is why he resigned on May 20 - 5 weeks before Libby and Miller met on June 23.  He is smart enough to know that whoever leaked that was SOL.  Bailing is better than jail.

          If Ari has flipped, what first hand info could he possibly have about WHIG meetings if he wasn't a member AND if he left in May?  He would be useless to Fitzgerald.

          Nah, Ari isn't the flipper.

          •  IIRC (none)
            Fleischer didn't leave until July.

            Yep, the White House website has Fleischer as giving press briefings up until July 14, 2003.

            I doubt had sufficient clearance but if he were to simply grab the fax on AF1 he'd seen the goods to disclose them.

            Given that he was around until mid-July, that would give him ample time to hear of rumblings of a concerted attempt to discredit Wilson. He wouldn't necessarily need to have been in WHIG meetings to have overheard or discussed a full-out attempt at discrediting Wilson.

            "Mr. Bush's relationship to the environment is roughly that of a doctor to a patient--when the doctor's name is Kevorkian." Bob Herbert, NYT

            by jorndorff on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 12:24:03 AM PDT

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          •  naw, he wasn't uselness. he was the first step (none)
            in reaching others with knowledge. there are a lot of aid and secretaries with limited but very damning informaton. washington turns on the work these folks do.
    •  Timing, Timing, Timing! (none)
      When did Novak speak with Ari if this was the case?

      Now we KNOW that Libby spoke with Miller at the end of June (we know the date of the June 23 - but she had at least 2, if not 3 discussios - before or after June 23 I don't know.

      Did Libby get tired waiting for Miller to break the story or at minimum to scuttle Wilson BEFORE the Times published the op0ed ( I had heard the Wilson was "shopping it" (the op ed contradicting Bush's comments) around - I do not know if that was true.

      But what if someone directed Ari to talk with Novak when Miller didn't come through? (I mean, realistically, is Ari really going to release this on his own? - surely leaked info at the press secretary level is planned by other people).

      I think that Libby and Miller kept silent about the June meetings because that knowledge really smashes the cover story that all the White House was doing was in REACTION to Wilson's published article [ whereas the hit was in much earlier - pointing to a carefully PLANNED conspiracy to leak information about Wilson that would immediately neutralize or minimize the repercussions from Wilson's article.

      I think, Miller, as we now see from her Times work - screwed up the White House because she either did not publish at the Times a pre-emptive article about Wilson or have a hit article that would appear in the Times regular news pages right after Wilson's appeared.

      So, what did the WHIG do? Send out a more partisan, but in the end, more reliable pit bull - Novak - to finish the hit job (Not as neat, or respectable - but, they thought respectable enough. And why not farm the job out to Ari - he was planning to leave the WH anyway!!!

      "Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered; yet we have this consolation with us, that the harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph." (T. Paine)

      by dmmteacher on Mon Oct 17, 2005 at 06:01:41 PM PDT

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      •  This might be why Judy/Judy (none)
        got so angry with the timing of Wilson's article.

        If not us, who? If not now, when? L. Feuctwanger

        by mattes on Mon Oct 17, 2005 at 08:19:06 PM PDT

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        •  I missed that - (none)
          When did Judy express anger about the release of Novak's article?

          Also, when did the Times editor tell Judy to forget about reporting on Iraq and WMD - before or after Wilson's article?

          If it is before, is that why it has been assumed that Judy was not working on an official Times story (she was in the doghouse)?

          Once again, I need to check out some of the web's timelines. It can be very revealing to go back and put other info in context.

          "Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered; yet we have this consolation with us, that the harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph." (T. Paine)

          by dmmteacher on Mon Oct 17, 2005 at 09:16:18 PM PDT

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          •  Read it here on kos... (none)
            also I just heard Colin Powell say that Valerie's name was not in the Air Force One memo.

            If not us, who? If not now, when? L. Feuctwanger

            by mattes on Mon Oct 17, 2005 at 09:26:33 PM PDT

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            •  Plame Name confusion (none)
              I think they meant the name "Valerie Plame" was not in the report - she was identified as Wilson's wife I believe and perhaps (Valerie Wilson).

              The bringing up of the Plame name many people believe was a way to say she was not idenitified by name (since she goes by the name of Valerie Wilson), so the identifying would require some research (a quick google search possibly).

              The important think was the linking of Valerie Plame Wilson to the CIA - which was an association that was NOT known - it was part of classified information since it would bring down the business cover she and the people she had contact with were protected by.

              "Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered; yet we have this consolation with us, that the harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph." (T. Paine)

              by dmmteacher on Mon Oct 17, 2005 at 09:39:25 PM PDT

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