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  •  As a self-respecting irrational Cubs fan... (4.00)
    ...I cannot in good conscience root for the White Sox.  The fact that they are even in the World Series is devastating to me.

    As far as the intra-division argument goes, at least its not the Cardinals...if that happened, I think my head would have exploded.

    Ironically, I became a Cubs fan because my father is a White Sox fan.  It was 1982 and the Sox were in the playoffs against the Orioles.  I wanted to play catch with him, and he told me he would only play if the White Sox won the game.  The Sox lost, he didn't play catch with me, so out of spite I became a Cubs fan at the age of six.  I thank him for that all the time.



    P.S. And as a Rangers fan, I bet that W. is actually cheering for the Sox to spite the Astros, just as Cubs fans would cheer for the Astros to spite the Sox.  Unless he puts politics above passion in baseball (alright, maybe I am over-analyzing).

    Join Sherrod Brown and "Grow Ohio" from the grassroots.

    by ttagaris on Sat Oct 22, 2005 at 01:01:00 PM PDT

    •  Why, fer chrissakes (none)
      I live in Chicago but am not a native.

      I am still waiting for an explanation from someone:

      Why are Cubs fans required to hate the Sox and vice versa?

      Take the fight to them. Don't let them bring it to you. - Harry S. Truman

      by jgoodfri on Sat Oct 22, 2005 at 01:03:32 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  That's standard (4.00)
        Cross-town rivals must hate each's not just a Sox/Cubs's a high school, college, professional, all sports thing.  ;-)

        Arrogant lips are unsuited to a fool-- how much worse lying lips to a ruler - Proverbs 17:7

        by Barbara Morrill on Sat Oct 22, 2005 at 01:09:26 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  well... (none)
        Beause for many of us that grew up there, we had our fair share of friends that rooted for the opposite team.  As a kid who played a ton of baseball, ditched school to get to wrigley, and cried in 1989 when Andre Dawson choked against the Giants -- there was always a lot of trash talking with my White Sox fan friends.

        My first year of college, I lived with two White Sox fans and 3 Cubs fans -- more trash talking.  When I transfered to Southern Illinois University, 2 of my best friends were White Sox fans -- still more trash talking, especially in our fantasy baseball leagues.

        So, that's my excuse.  It's not nature, it's nurture.


        Join Sherrod Brown and "Grow Ohio" from the grassroots.

        by ttagaris on Sat Oct 22, 2005 at 01:09:27 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Because... (none)'s one or the other. You can't have it both ways. I'm a huge Sox fan, but until now my favorite baseball moment was watching the Cubs collapse in 2003.

        Any Cubs fans rooting for the Sox in the World Series aren't real fans.

        •  One more thing (none)
          If the Sox win, I want one of the usual World Series Champions t-shirts, but on the back it will have "Suck it Cubs fans!!"

          If they don't have something like that, I should get one custom-made...

        •  heh... (none)
          I was talking to my dad about the series against the Angels, and he asked me if I was cheering for the White Sox (stupid question for him to ask of me), and I told him yes...

          ...I am cheering for the White Sox to do as well as they have to do so any collapse that ensues is more heart-breaking than the one the Cub suffered in 2003.


          Join Sherrod Brown and "Grow Ohio" from the grassroots.

          by ttagaris on Sat Oct 22, 2005 at 01:15:07 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  I don't hate the Sox, (4.00)
        I don't like Sox fans.

        I don't think a group of people suffer as much of a Napoleon complex as White Sox fans.

        Imagine two scenarios at Grant Park, one where the Cubs win the World Series, and one where the Sox win.

        At the Cubs rally, "Cubs Win, Cubs Win!"

        At the Sox rally, "Cubs Suck, Cubs Suck!"

        •  You Nailed IT (none)
          I love the Cubs. I 'inherited' my step-dad's season tix. And, I like the Sox, and I have a lot of respect for Ozzie....we exchanged some silly banter the night of the Bartman incident when he was 3rd base coach for the Marlins. He's a nice, nice guy.
          But you're right. Sox fans would rather see the Cubs lose than the Sox win. I'm hoping that their attitude will change if they finally win the Series.
          I'm going tomorrow night and I'm cheering for the Sox.
          •  with you (none)
            it's not the team so much as the fans.  When I was nine and picking a team, the boy I hated the most loved the Sox and wouldn't shut up about it (do they ever?) Case closed.  Besides, the dreamy Ryne Sandberg was their star at the time.

            As far as the Series goes, a meteor(ite) could hit the park and it would make no difference to me.  I hate the Sox, Mr Krilink hates the Astros (Cards fan), so it's been a tough week.  We're adopting conscientious objector status. No point in purposely making one of us miserable.

            Let me know when the buck stops.

            by krilink on Sat Oct 22, 2005 at 03:43:16 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  Here's one Sox fan (none)
            that was delighted when the Cubs won - and my son, a huge Cub fan, hates the Sox.  I'm sure there are plenty like us.

            The beneficiaries are likely to be...large corporations and development firms. (O'Connor, J. dissenting in Kelo). God bless you, J. O'Connor.

            by xanthe on Sat Oct 22, 2005 at 06:15:58 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  Wait... (none)
          There's only one baseball team in Chicago.

          Then there's some shrine where some people put on uniforms and 40,000 people drink beer and talk on cell phones.

          I'm a democrat and I believe in you.

          by winodj on Sat Oct 22, 2005 at 06:09:16 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  They're not (none)
        but Cubs fans have a bug up their @$$.

        I was born and raised on the southside. Used to hear the fireworks going off at Comiskey and run inside to see who hit a homerun. Spent my birthday parties at the ballpark (born in early April always near opening day).

        But there was a very nice old lady from our church that lived across the street that would take me on the L up to Wrigley to watch the Cubs play every once in awhile. Lots of fun. Nice ol' lady, Mildred Farrow. Thank you Mildred.

        I love the Sox and the Cubs but I love the Sox more. The only thing I have against the Cubs is their sillyassed superiority complex born out of their wee little... chance of ever winning a damn thing.

        GO SOX!!!

        •  Sox v. Cubs (4.00)
          I grew up in Southern Indiana as a Reds fan. Had to leave that when Marge Schott began running her mouth.
          So, I moved to Chicago, starting teaching on the West side and attended an occasional Cubs game at Wrigley and Sox game at Comiskey. Both were fun.
          Nine years ago, my son was born and, about five years later I began taking him to games. There is such a different feel to the games. My son, Wilson, finally asked that we stop going to Wrigley, and after talking to him a while, I figured out why. When we went to Cubs games, it was full of pretty, cell-phone toting people who rarely paid attention to the games. ("Oh my God, can you believe that Johnny did that? I'm sooo sure.")
          When we went/go to Sox games (even at the heinous US Cellular Field), people know the game, want to discuss the Sox players, stats, etc. They're into the game. It's just a better place to see baseball and be part of the game. Wrigley is a better place to find a date...

          The purpose of education is create men and women capable of doing new things, not merely repeating what others have done~~Jean Piaget

          by BigAl on Sat Oct 22, 2005 at 03:39:19 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Wrigley used to be better (none)
            but it and the Cubs became "hip" and it appears to have been down hill ever since.

            When I went there a handful of neighbors put lawn chairs up on the roofs, had a few friends over, had a few beers and watched the games for free. That was kinda cool. When the bleacher seats went up on the neighboring buildings it lost all charming character as far as I'm concerned.

            Bleacher bums in both parks used to be baseball fans but nowadays Wrigley is just an excuse to see and be seen. Screw that. You can go Oak Street beach for that crap.

            When I went to Wrigley it was to see Ernie Banks, Fergie Jenkins and Billy Williams. It is where I saw Willie Mays play. It's where I saw the Big Red Machine and where I saw Willie Stargell and Roberto Clemente.

            Now those were people to see!

      •  it just must be, jgoodfri... (none)
        It just must be...

        (I'm a Cubs fan, too, btw.)

        Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men? Well, come on, doesn't anybody know!?!?

        by Erik the Red on Sat Oct 22, 2005 at 04:21:05 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Faulty memory (none)
      Sorry, Tim, the ChiSox-scarring incident with your Dad took place in 1983, not 1982.  The 1982 AL playoffs featured Gene Mauch's Angels vs. the "Harvey's Wallbangers" Milwaukee Brewers, led by Yount, Molitor, Simmons, Oliver, Cooper and Thomas.  The Brewers beat the Angels, and then lost to the Cardinals in the Series.

      "Run, comrade, the old world is behind you!" -- Situationist graffito, 1968

      by Pesto on Sat Oct 22, 2005 at 01:05:55 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Yes yes yes... (none)
        you are correct, it was 83.


        Join Sherrod Brown and "Grow Ohio" from the grassroots.

        by ttagaris on Sat Oct 22, 2005 at 01:10:10 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Harvey's Wallbangers (none)
        That was a good line up. Wasn't Ben Ogilivie on that team too? He had a couple really good years in there in the middle of an otherwise very mediocre career. Yount, Molitor and Gorman Thomas though... I thought Thomas was going to end up breaking all sorts of home run records the way he hit for that team. Not much pitching as I recall though... or at least... not enough pitching.

        What was the managers name? Long time coach as I recall. Harvey... ?

        •  Kuenn (none)
          Harvey Kuenn (pronounced "keen").  Thomas hit a lot of homers, but he wasn't a particularly good hitter, and not much of a CF either -- a somewhat more athletic Steve Balboni, essentially, although he might have been a better player if his workout regimen had ever gone beyond the 12-ounce curl.  And yes, Ben Oglivie was on that team, too, along with Charlie Moore and Jim Gantner.  Starters were, let's see, Vuckovich (totally undeserving Cy Young), Caldwell, Haas...I can't remember the rest of the rotation.  Rollie Fingers was the closer (he won the Cy in '81, IIRC).  The WS was a show-down between the 2 superstar relief aces, Fingers and Sutter.

          "Run, comrade, the old world is behind you!" -- Situationist graffito, 1968

          by Pesto on Sun Oct 23, 2005 at 01:25:01 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  gotta say that makes no sense... (none)
      Not the bit about your dad pushing into a lifetime assignment to the purgatory that is being a Cubs fan (I'm one myself, so I can relate), but the fact that you believe that won't let you root for the Pale Hose.

      Sheesh!  Give it a rest, the Cubs ain't gonna win this Series and the City of the Big Shoulders could sure use it.

      If for no other reason than the fact that the Bush Seniors are big 'stros fans and the team is from Houston - the HEART of Texas' Talibangelist Freeperville.

      Go-go White Sox!!!

      One last question - what would you have done if the Cardinals had made the WS?

      "In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." --Thomas Jefferson

      by frisco on Sat Oct 22, 2005 at 02:05:32 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  not to quibble (none)
      but the Sox played the O's in the '83 playoffs, not '82.  Winning Ugly, Britt Burns, and f***ing Tito Landrum.

      Fox News--As fair as a Florida Election, as balanced as Ann Coulter when she forgets her medicine.

      by Dizzy on Sat Oct 22, 2005 at 03:29:48 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I'm a Sox fan and (none)
      I was happy when the Cubs won a few years back.  Shame on you - can't you allow your fellow Chicagoans to have some pleasure?

      The beneficiaries are likely to be...large corporations and development firms. (O'Connor, J. dissenting in Kelo). God bless you, J. O'Connor.

      by xanthe on Sat Oct 22, 2005 at 05:25:29 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  How old ARE you? (none)
      You say you were six, yet the Sox didn't play the Orioles in 1982.

      It was 1983.

      Look it up.

      Again, I ask, how old were you?

      And some dumb thing like at the age of six - when you don't know squat - means you have to keep that in your head for the rest of your life?  

      Go see a shrink and get over it.

    •  Cubs and Sox fans (none)
      It's like having the Boston Red Sox and New York Yankees in the same town.

      "Are you trying to play Darwin to the lemurs in your head?"

    •  No, that's cool (none)
      I'm diehard Sox fan all the way, but I respect the fact that cubbie fans might root for the Astros out of pure spite.  I celebrate that narrowminded, fierce sense of schadenfreude that is the loyal sports fan.

      It'll just be that much sweeter when the South Siders get fitted for their World Series championship rings.

      Oh, and by the way to all those who say otherwise, Hawk Harrelson is truly one of baseball's gems.

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