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View Diary: NRO writer: 'Fitz is apolitical' (104 comments)

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  •  Yep. (4.00)
    The Ronnie Earle talking points won't work here, folks.
    •  And by folks .. (none)
      .. I obviously mean the Repubs.  I wish I could edit out the Dubyish use of "folks."
      •  If it makes you feel any better (4.00)
        Garrison Keillor uses "folks" all the time. :-)

        The problem with the French is that they don't have a word for entrepreneur. -- GW Bush to PM Tony Blair

        by PJBurke on Mon Oct 24, 2005 at 10:03:33 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Sorry to do this... (none)
          I liked your sig line so much I googled it.

          I am upset that it is not a real quote. Damn!

          http://www.snopes.com/quotes/bush.htm

          [ Anyone who thinks my bark is worse than my bite, has never seen me bite. ]

          by dj angst on Mon Oct 24, 2005 at 11:24:34 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Snopes Is Not Persuasive (none)
            I've seen the Snopes attempt on this quote. It boils down to "believe in our belief," even though there is no foundation for that belief.

            It is not persuasive, and here's why:

            One: they are going on the word of one person -- as reported by another person, yet -- who has every reason, politically, to mislead if not directly lie.  Certainly a "Director of Communications and Strategy" understands the importance of not embarrassing the President of the United States, and what he does in his statement is called "spin" or "damage control." It is very carefully and artfully worded:

            "I can tell you that the prime minister never heard George Bush say that, and he certainly never told Shirley Williams that President Bush did say it," Campbell told The Post. "If she put this in a speech, it must have been a joke."

            We know that Mr. "Director of Communications and Strategy" Campbell is not privy to everything that Tony Blair heard, for that would be impossible.  But notice that the claim is not: "Prime Minister Blair said the statement is untrue." Instead, it is Campbell purporting to be a complete authority on everything that the Prime Minister heard... up to and including those times when the Prime Minister was alone with Bush.  No one should buy that claim.

            The second part is also deceptive.  Campbell purports to be an authority on every statement uttered by the Prime Minister to all third parties, which is also an illegitimate claim to knowledge which it is impossible for Campbell to have.  The only authority on that is Blair himself, but Campbell does not offer any direct statement from Blair.  He offers his own statement of what he purports to have knowledge of... knowledge which, again, is impossible for him to have.

            All of this begs the question: Why didn't Blair simply say: "Bush never said that to me, and I never said that he did to her." Indeed, why?  

            The obvious conclusion here is that if Blair could truthfully make that statement, he would have. He has not.

            Blair has never made any direct statement on this. That says a lot in and of itself.

            Second: The purported single source, as claimed by Snopes, is said to be "Shirley Williams, also known as the Baroness Williams of Crosby." But there is no attribution to anyone that she is in fact the source... or the only source, for that matter.  We do not know that there weren't other people who had also been so "regaled with the anecdote" by Blair.  We are expected to simply accept the claim the she is the only source.

            To which we should say: Fine. We will provisionally accept that she is the sole source, even though there is no attribution that she is, based on what she has to say about it.  Where is her statement on the matter?

            Snopes: "Uh... we don't have one." Say WHAT?

            Their answer is that the reporter (Lloyd Grove) was unable to reach her.

            Excuse me, but Bullshit.

            The entire attempt at "debunking" unravels upon that single point.  We do not need to inquire as to why the reporter did not reach her... or why she has made absolutely no subsequent statement(s) (sudden absolute silence in a political actor is telling, sometimes)... none of the interesting questions we could pose about that.  They are not necessary to knowing -- and judging -- this so-called "debunking" as being simply incomplete.  That is the best that can be said for it.  

            And that is why it is not persuasive.

            It all boils down to Snopes saying "believe in our belief," even though the foundation for that belief is wholly absent.

            Uh, sorry... but no.  




            The problem with the French is that they don't have a word for entrepreneur. -- GW Bush to PM Tony Blair

            by PJBurke on Tue Oct 25, 2005 at 08:27:55 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  In that case... (none)
              switch the '4' from "consolation" status to "Well argued and researched point."

              If only our Senators could be as succinct.

              And thanks, I can now again take some small joy in believing Georgie is just that stupid.

              [ Anyone who thinks my bark is worse than my bite, has never seen me bite. ]

              by dj angst on Tue Oct 25, 2005 at 11:19:51 AM PDT

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              •  And Thank You (none)
                A very generous compliment indeed... coming from one of the standout eruditionists (my made-up word) hereabouts.

                And: but of course, Georgie is that stupid... DNA testing has revealed that he is the fraternal twin of none other than Dan Quayle... our first ESL Vice President.  The evident similarities in near-unique talent for mangled language should have piqued our suspicions at once.

                The problem with the French is that they don't have a word for entrepreneur. -- GW Bush to PM Tony Blair Snopes "debunk": Not Persuasive

                by PJBurke on Tue Oct 25, 2005 at 12:37:30 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  I remember noticing in the 80's (none)
                  ...(using my own teenage mind) that whenever Reagan would say something stupid, Bush senior would say something even more stupid within 3 days. Then by late 1986, no more gaffs, just in time to appear presidential. Of coure dopey quayle in jester shoes was there to take the baton.

                  Political cover via "duncery" (I make up words too; a guilty pleasure).

                  I'm not arguing that they aren't stupid; they are. They're just not as stupid as the come off. Perhaps Georgie is an exception, but certainly none are inheriting a political legacy to be proud of.

                  The sickest part? In 1994, a friend's republican parent was heard saying Dan Quayle would be a great candidate for 1996.

                  I guess the nice thing to say would be "It takes all kinds."

                  [ Anyone who thinks my bark is worse than my bite, has never seen me bite. ]

                  by dj angst on Tue Oct 25, 2005 at 11:14:22 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

        •  Have a consolation '4' (none)

          [ Anyone who thinks my bark is worse than my bite, has never seen me bite. ]

          by dj angst on Mon Oct 24, 2005 at 11:25:09 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

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