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View Diary: Bill Clinton tells Dems to Fight or "Find Something Else To Do" (428 comments)

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  •  I don't understand how some Democrats ... (3.00)
    ... can dismiss one instance of lying to a grand jury as insignificant and then turn around and claim that another instance is significant. That sounds very similar to the recent like Kay Bailey Hutchison-type logic of convenience. As Patrick Fitzgerald so clearly pointed out in his press conference ... "truth is the engine of our judicial system. And if you compromise the truth, the whole process is lost." So, I can't dismiss Bill Clinton's lying to a grand jury as any less serious than Scooter Libby's lying to a grand jury, because I think the "whole process" of rule of law as a basis for our society is too valuable to give up for partisan politics.
    •  again... (4.00)
      I didn't say Clinton's lying to a grand jury was insignificant, and I don't know anyone, Democrat or otherwise, who feels that way. And again, as I said before, many if not most of us advocated censure for him - a very, very serious punishment for a sitting president, but one that is short of impeachment.

      But is there a difference between what Clinton did and what Libby did? You bet your ass there is. Acknowledging that is not saying that the one is "insignificant."

      If you can't see a difference between giving a false answer to a question about your sex life, a question that was irrelevant to the grand jury's probe in the first place and shouldn't have been asked, and giving a false answer in an investigation of a breach of national security... you either live in a seriously monochromatic world, or you're a freeper troll.

      (And if I were going to LGF or Free Rep. to bait some wingers, I'd probably take something like "Reagan Republican" as my screen name. Not that I'm implying anything.)

      ...Freedom is on the march. Straight to the gas chamber. this is infidelica...

      by snookybeh on Sun Oct 30, 2005 at 11:42:54 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  I can't see the difference ... (none)
        ... and that is the point I was making. Lying to a grand jury totally corrupts our system, as Patrick Fitzgerald pointed out so eloquently (no special situations, no equivocation, just the absolute). Our entire system depends on truth. If we come to the point where we wink at some instances of lying under oath as being more acceptable because the underlaying motivation was minor, then we have abandoned our principles for expediency. That latter is what Bush and his cronies did in taking us to Iraq. I will not go down that road with them. If you are content to live in a society that winks at lying to a grand jury, then you have become part of the culture of corruption that we, as Democrats, say we want to do away with.
        •  I'm glad I don't live... (none)
          in your imaginary universe, where all transgressions are treated equally. I guess in your world, the burglar who steals a car stereo gets the same punishment as the contract killer.

          Well, it certainly makes life easier.

          Tell me one instance in any comment that I have made anywhere at any time when I "winked" at lying to a grand jury. I said specifically that I thought that what Clinton did was wrong, and he deserved to be censured. How the fuck is that "winking?"

          I'll give you another chance: do you honestly believe that lying to a grand jury about a blowjob has the same consequences, and deserves the same punishment, as lying to a grand jury about a breach of national security in which lives have undoubtedly been lost, and the safety of our nation has been seriouly compromised? You really believe that?!?

          I'm assuming you're aware that a sitting president cannot be indicted for a crime, and that Clinton would have had to have been impeached/removed from office in order to be tried for perjury. You really think Clinton should have been impeached, then removed from office, for lying about a blowjob?

          If so, then, nothing personal, but you're fucking batshit crazy, Inspector Javert.

          Or a wingnut troll who is trying to get a rise from me. And if you are, it's working.

          ...Freedom is on the march. Straight to the gas chamber. this is infidelica...

          by snookybeh on Sun Oct 30, 2005 at 05:01:14 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  It's about being consistent ... (none)
            Clinton lied to a grand jury.
            Libby lied to a grand jury.

            Both are equally worthy of our condemnation, imo. As for what sentence should be given for their crime, I think there is latitude to consider the underlaying crime, but, as to the lying to a grand jury, both are equally guilty and equally dishonorable, imo.

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