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View Diary: Bill Clinton tells Dems to Fight or "Find Something Else To Do" (428 comments)

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  •  You're being deliberately ignorant (none)
    You know that's not what I'm saying at all.

    You're twisting words, lying about what I am saying and implying.

    Bad economic times happen, even when guided by a sure hand. Clinton gutted the safety net for the most vulnerable among us. That's what I'm saying.

    •  if you want (none)
      welfare and more people living in poverty.

      i guess you're right.

      "I don't think Feingold and Clinton are really that far apart on Iraq." -- Howard Dean, 10/23/05

      by BiminiCat on Sun Oct 30, 2005 at 02:27:55 PM PST

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      •  Welfare does NOT cause poverty (none)
        Where's your liberal heart?
        •  that wasn't really my point (none)
          to draw some sort of causality between welfare and poverty.

          the point was, if you wanted welfare and more people in poverty, then you probably weren't a clinton fan.

          no causality was implied.

          but since you brought it up... i lived in ireland in the late 80s long enough to know that welfare as a way of life can become a impediment to progress.

          "I don't think Feingold and Clinton are really that far apart on Iraq." -- Howard Dean, 10/23/05

          by BiminiCat on Sun Oct 30, 2005 at 04:43:07 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Whatever (none)
            Clinton ripped apart the social safety net.

            Have any hospitals near you that recently went broke or are struggling to stay open? Those were the results of Clinton's Medicare reform (gutting) and Medicaid reform (total destruction).

            See more people begging on street corners or notice more families in homeless shelters, particularly single mothers with children? Clinton's AFDC reform.

            Hard time finding affordable housing in New York, Boston, Chicago, etc.? Clinton HUD reform.

            It is totally unrealistic to gut lasting and good but flawed programs based on the premise that the economy will always be good or the economic policies always sound.

            The very definition of a social safety net is that it is for hard times, which we are now in. Clinton ripped that social contract to shreds, not Reagan, not Bush I, and not the current Bush. Clinton did that. Thank heavens Clinton didn't attempt to reform what remains of the New Deal.

            These were not "liberal" acts by Clinton, far, far from it.

            Hey, I liked him better than Bush, too. But you ought to be more realistic in your assessment of what he was, exactly. And he was NOT a friend to the left.

            •  have millions of people move (none)
              out of poverty.

              no clinton.   they're still in poverty.

              i saw more homeless people on the streets before clinton.

              no bush.  no hard times.

              you keep saying words like "gut" and "ripped to shreds."  when what you mean is "reform".  of course you don't have a case if you can't use the more absolute words you use.  much of the social safety net was still in place after clinton.  like social security.  and they were talking about putting the budget surplus clinton created in a lockbox to keep Social Security solvent for another 100 years.  the social safety net protected... thanks to clinton... for another 100 years, if not longer.

              the current bush wanted to put an end to socical security.  

              you'd make a good RNC speech writer.

              "I don't think Feingold and Clinton are really that far apart on Iraq." -- Howard Dean, 10/23/05

              by BiminiCat on Sun Oct 30, 2005 at 08:32:09 PM PST

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            •  You are completely full of shit. (none)
              There were not more homeless people becaue of Clinton.  there were fewer.  HUD was a fucking disaster and needed to be reformed.   Total destruction of Medicaid?  What are you even talking about.  Clearly, your source of information is your own ass.

              It takes a second to wreck it. It takes time to build.

              by lando on Mon Oct 31, 2005 at 12:01:55 AM PST

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