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View Diary: The Rest of the Abu Ghraib footage ... ? (88 comments)

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  •  I for one hope (1.00)
    that the new, unseen footage stays that way....unseen. I don't want to know how much worse things were there than we already know. And I think its stupid and pointless to release any more torture pics and videos. The world has already seen enough of them to hate us and judge us for what happened there. I wouldn't have had a problem with them if they would've been released along with the rest of them in the first place, but now that everyone in the world, mainly the middle east, has pretty much lost intrest in the Abu Ghraib scandal, I think its fucking ridiculous to put that issue right back in the spotlight all over again. Seriously...can we just move on and not dwell on how "evil" the American "infidel" is? Do we really need to see more graphic pics of Iraqis being tortured amongst other things?
    •  Maybe you could wait (4.00)
      until the Congress passes anti-torture legislation, over Bush's veto, before endorsing a cover-up?

      I've got blisters on my fingers!

      by Elwood Dowd on Tue Nov 01, 2005 at 05:38:51 PM PST

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    •  Truth hurts, but (4.00)
      the Truth should not be surpressed simply because you feel you have seen enough. No torture = no photos. They should have thought of that before.

      Can anyone tell me why my American flag was made in China?

      by Skid on Tue Nov 01, 2005 at 05:44:21 PM PST

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    •  If it were all in the past (4.00)
      as you seem to think, I'd agree with you. The trouble is that we don't know how many people are still being tortured by us or "outsourced" to our business partners in the Arab and Central Asian world.

      There's never going to be a thorough investigation of our global gulag until Americans rise up and demand one. Unfortunately, the only way to get most Americans to care about human rights is to show them pictures. I'm not sure that releasing these pictures will do the trick, but, for the sake of thousands of incarcerated people around the world, it's certainly worth a try.

    •  Yes!! (4.00)
      I think we, and we being, the people of the United States of America, need to see this information.  Since it's the American public that it's actually being withheld from!  Most of the rest of the world already knows about this and certainly those in Iraq know about it from first hand experience.  The longer this remains hidden, the longer the torture will continue. When this comes out, hopefully, the American public will stand up and say enough is enough!  Of course, I tend to lean to the optomistic side of things!

      Just when you thought it couldn't possibly get any worse...

      by reflectionsv37 on Tue Nov 01, 2005 at 05:52:13 PM PST

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    •  Here is the proper sequence: (4.00)
      Though I personally don't want to see the another photo, the necessary sequence is simply be full accountability, starting immediately and, ideally, completed before the photos are released:

      Who apparently took the photo or video?
      What US  soldiers were present/shown?
      Who is their commanding officer?
      Are there crimes evident?  Have they been prosecuted?  

      Has the commanding officer been held accountable as an accessory, as an accomplice, or just for criminal negligence?  
      If none of the above, who is their commanding officer?
      Continue until complete.

      Those are the rules in the military.  If they're not being followed, the commander in chief is responsible.

      Once we have those supporting documents with the all the charges, the photos can't do any damage.

    •  You may not want to know - but that's too bad (4.00)
      "now that everyone in the world, mainly the middle east, has pretty much lost intrest in the Abu Ghraib scandal, I think its fucking ridiculous to put that issue right back in the spotlight all over again."

      I don't know if you're a troll or just woefully misguided - or both, which is also possible. If you think that the Middle East has "pretty much lost interest," in men, women, and children from their part of the world being abused, tortured and photographed with the smiling faces of their torturers alongside them, try imagining if the pictures were of American soldiers with insurgents piling Americans naked in the hallways of a prison and attaching them to electrical wires and taking pictures - then try to imagine how quickly this country would "lose interest."  

      If the people who were photographed had to endure what they had to endure as a result of the illegal but official policies of my country, the least I can do is swallow my fear and distaste and bear witness - and demand that those who are responsible have to be held accountable and bear witness too.

      "Why should we hear about body bags, and deaths . . . I mean, it's not relevant. So why should I waste my beautiful mind on something like that?" - B. Bush

      by The New Politeness on Tue Nov 01, 2005 at 06:01:40 PM PST

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    •  It won't be good, but it MUST be released. (4.00)
      Quite simply, these are WAR CRIMES.

      Our government is withholding evidence of war crimes.

      That is disgraceful.

      These photos and briefs video clips need to be released.

      It's going to be another huge step backward for our image around the world, and will no doubt do wonders for terrorist recruitment.

      But we must never, ever withhold info of war crimes.

      Keep an air-sickness bag ready.

    •  as they say in AA (none)
      You are only as sick as your secrets.

      If Bush had any morals or courage, he would release the footage, burn down Abu Gahraib (which was also Saddam's torture prison) close guantanamo and make sure the military gets everyone involved into court.

      And Bush will say to the muslim world, WE are and I am SORRY. We really do mean to liberate you and first we must liberate you from our abuse.

      He could become a hero and be written about in history books for centuries.

      •  Way too late for that... (4.00)
        You think an apology, now, could absolve Bush in any way? You've got to be kidding. Bush, the guy who went to his attorney for a legal opinion that it was okay to torture people as long as he claimed they were terrorists, first? The guy who still thinks Guantanamo is just peachy? The guy who anyhow thinks he has never made a mistake? Who chokes on the words "I'm sorry" as if they were a pretzel?

        I know he's in many ways a pawn. But he's still the President. The Chinese have a saying: A fish rots from the head.

        He is going to be written about in history books for centuries, all right -- but not as a hero.

        Folly is fractal: the closer you look at it, the more of it there is. - TNH

        by Canadian Reader on Tue Nov 01, 2005 at 06:36:11 PM PST

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      •  Uh (none)
        If Bush had any morals or courage, he would...make sure the military gets everyone involved into court.

        I've been sittin here waiting for the military to rush the White House...

        The dark at the end of the tunnel is an oncoming age.

        by peeder on Tue Nov 01, 2005 at 09:13:21 PM PST

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    •  Go crawl under a rock then (4.00)
      and let the grown ups do something useful. We'll let you know when it's all sorted out.

      It is widely known by people following this issue that the next round of Abu Gharab documentation will show evidence of rape and murder, some of which is practiced on young boys. I for one have no desire to view the images myself, but it is absolutely vital that this information be known to the world.

      Bush didn't have to have it this way. If there had been a vital reaction to the initial charges, if the nation had been able to have an informed debate, and if head's had rolled, then he MIGHT have been able to delay the release of the more disturbing materials. As it is, they still may never see the light of day.

      But people need to be held accountable, and this intractable administration has all but begged for this inevitable clash with the truth of their illicit actions, done in our name.

    •  I don't want to see this but the full House and (none)
      the full Senate should see it.  So should the press.

      I want these people to describe exactly what they're looking at and give words to the horror, the unspeakable horror of these things being done in our name.

      I want a museum built with all these images hung on the walls, for historians who can bear to look at them and then write about how civilized we are.


    •  Is there a way post (4.00)
      negative numbers for trolls?

      Or, better yet, square roots of negative numbers, which make the posts instantly and totally disappear?

      Oh well, have to satified with a big fat zero for now.

    •  lost interest? (none)
      Lost interest? Lost INTEREST? People all over the world are still angry, Iraqis are seething that Lyddie England and Graner got pitiful little sentences, and Bush gets re-elected by the majority.

      They haven't lost interest. The US still has Guantanamo, Abu Ghraib is still open, the NY Times and HRW report on detainee beatings by US soldiers "for fun," and things are getting worse. No, they haven't forgotten, shame the Americans have.

    •  The people who allowed/encouraged this to happen (none)
      will be in power for another THREE YEARS.  

      I don't want the moron who said "Hey everybody--how about we try rape, torture, sexual humiliation, and beatings all around as a way of intimidating an entire culture??"  to continue making those kinds of policies (not to mention going unpunished) for another THREE YEARS.

      And since I don't see the administration doing anything to discourage that behavior--I believe the public will have demand that it stop.

      The release of the pictures will be upsetting, but not as upsetting as the idea that we'll allow this to continue.  

      Those who are too smart to engage in politics are punished by being governed by those who are dumber--Plato

      by techiechick on Wed Nov 02, 2005 at 06:05:16 AM PST

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