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View Diary: The Power Of The State: Privacy Rights and Economic Rights (296 comments)

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  •  If no state legislature would enact (none)
    a ban on contraceptives, does that mean Griswold is fair game for confirmation hearings. I.e. that the judge can't duck it on the grounds that a case raising the issue might come before him. I'd love to hear someone ask Alito whether Griswold was rightly decided at the time (not whether he would uphold it now based on stare decisis).
    •  Or, one could ask if a mandatory abortion (none)
      policy for women who've already had one child, ala China, would pass constitutional muster.
    •  No state? (none)
      When I was a boy, Illinois banned the sale of contraceptives. Condoms were sold "for the prevention of disease only" and abortion was a felony. If the reight wing gets control of the legislaure again, they would turn back the clock.

      I heard four of the last six Repulican primary candidates for the Senate say that the minimum wage was the cause of unemployment and should be abolished. Surely they would ban the pill as well. Just like Ru486.

      •  We cannot forget that many religious (4.00)
        fundamentalists oppose birth control pills because they consider this form of contraception to be the equivalent of abortion (theoretically preventing the implantation of a fertilized egg). This is the reasoning by which some pharmacists refuse to dispense birth control pills. The same reasoning would no doubt apply to IUDs.

        Let's not deceive ourselves. If they could ban contraception, they would.

        •  And Further (none)
          That they would clearly ban all contraceptives for minors of any type, even condoms, because to allow minors to have them would be to encourage sex.  Please don't groan, this is what they believe, believe me, I have been amongst them.
          •  Being amongst them (none)
            Your absolutely right on this. I, too, have been amongst them. In fact, I've heard it explained that the only reason they believe abortion exists is because birth control fails. Their circular logic says that if birth control is abolished, then abortion follows. In fact, abolishing birth control, to hear many of them tell it, is their ultimate goal.
            That isn't shock and awe from the left, it's thier true belief.
            Again, they believe that that as long as birth control exists, abortion HAS to exist, because the public will demand it when their birth control fails.

            When you're going through hell, keep going. -- Winston Churchill

            by valleycat on Thu Nov 03, 2005 at 11:42:00 AM PST

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            •  There's not enough of them. (none)

              The real religious nutballs make up 20% of the population at most.  If they overturned Roe vs. Wade, we might see, say, 20 states outlaw abortion.   None of them would outlaw contraception.  There simply aren't enough people (even die-hard Catholics) who seriously are interested in such a measure.

            •  That is interesting (none)
              Because I have some family members or old friends from college that are in fundies churches. They said they actually advocate birth control for married women. It is single women and teens that they oppose birth control. They feel birth control encourages singles to have sex. That is more the hogwash they spin as married women in these fundie churches are often on birth control.

              America was not built on fear. America was built on courage, on imagination and an unbeatable determination to do the job at hand-Harry S. Truman

              by wishingwell on Thu Nov 03, 2005 at 02:12:20 PM PST

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        •  Some.... (none)
          But there are still a good many Fundies who use birth control. You are right and make a good point but in talking to some right wing religious people, they use contraception like the pill.
          It depends on the church and how strict they are.

          Actually what is more common among fundies is that they do not want teen girls using contraceptives or single women but advocate strongly that married women can. At least that is what I hear from some fundies over the years that are either relatives or old friends from college, etc.

          America was not built on fear. America was built on courage, on imagination and an unbeatable determination to do the job at hand-Harry S. Truman

          by wishingwell on Thu Nov 03, 2005 at 02:03:58 PM PST

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        •  Absolutely. (none)
          Let's not deceive ourselves. If they could ban contraception, they would.

           And lacking the ability to criminalize it's use they will do everything possible to limit it's use by making it more difficult to obtain, destroy attempts to educate about it's use and destroy what little access the poor have to any reproductive healthcare.  This is true of the Catholic heirarchy (see Africa and condom use) as much as it is true of protestant fundamentalists.

          And Armando, btw, this is an excellent PF post....

          "...the definition of a gaffe in Washington is somebody who tells the truth but shouldn't have." Howard Dean

          by colleen on Thu Nov 03, 2005 at 04:01:08 PM PST

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      •  To be clear... (none)
        For the sake of argument, I was accepting the conservative comentator's premise that no state would enact such legislation. I don't actually agree with the premise - I know there is a sector of the population that still thinks birth control encourages what they consider immoral behavior.
      •  Can you believe (4.00)
        we're even having this discussion in this day and age?

        What is happening?

        "It's all a bad, bad dream and I'm going to wake up soon."

        by cajay on Thu Nov 03, 2005 at 11:18:11 AM PST

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        •  I know (none)
          It boggles the mind. That is another reason I want to read Jimmy Carter's New Book about the Moral Crisis in America: How our Values are Endangered or something to that effect.

          Thank God there are moderate Evangelicals like him and at least 17 pct of the Electorate. I think perhaps we need to recruit the other percentages of Democrat Evangelicals and those who believe as the Carters do..etc.

          America was not built on fear. America was built on courage, on imagination and an unbeatable determination to do the job at hand-Harry S. Truman

          by wishingwell on Thu Nov 03, 2005 at 02:14:40 PM PST

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      •  I don't care what he says about (none)
        contraception.  Griswald was decided for married couples. The idea that some states won't go back to a strict interpretation of that law is just wrong.

        Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities-Voltaire

        by hairspray on Thu Nov 03, 2005 at 04:42:15 PM PST

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      •  Illinois? (none)
        I grew up there.  I don't think so.  Not in the 50's, anyway.  But certainly states like Wisconsin, and I also think Maryland and Connecticut outlawed contraceptives.  We used to laugh that if you lived in Illinois you'd go to the state line to buy beer (lower age than Illinois), and if you lived in Wisconsin you'd go there to get condoms.
    •  It's all hogwash anyhow (3.75)
      It doesn't matter if "no state legistlature" would enact it.  Quoting the original post:

      the Court won't eliminate the basic "constitutional" right to contraception because that right already has a more secure political footing than the Court's support for it: namely, the people's support for it.

      The FDA has already halted the approval for OTC sale of the morning after pill which is a form of contraception.  OTC sales are critically important because it's effectiveness drops off quickly over time.  It's not equivalent to RU486 which is a pharmaceutical to cause an abortion.  Yet it's withheld by the FDA because of administration policy in spite of science demonstrating it is safe and effective.

      Did a legistlature impose on this contraceptive?  No.  Remember, the FDA, tomorrow could arbitrarily take any contraceptive off the market.  They could make it arbitrarily harder to get them, etc.  That's why having a legal ground that's based in the constitution is important.  

      --- If trickle down economics worked, Marie Antoinette wouldn't have lost her head

      by sterno on Thu Nov 03, 2005 at 12:09:28 PM PST

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