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View Diary: {UPDATE 5 - PROGRESS!} Abramoff-Scanlon Memo Reveals Secret Republican Strategy, Disses Evangelicals (196 comments)

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  •  Yeah, (4.00)
    Try buying a spot on Christian radio. They will tell you, "Get the hell outta here, these are our wackos!"

    Somewhere around 2001, Mr. Spock grew a beard.

    by Olds88 on Fri Nov 04, 2005 at 03:12:27 AM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  They can't refuse a campaign ad in an election (4.00)
      Federal law is very clear on this. All campaign ads must be accepted by all TV and radio stations, or they can get their licenses pulled.

      I think we need to be getting hardcore Christians the biblical reasons why they should not be supporting far right candidates. We need to be getting Christians a lot more of the actual words of Jesus. Jesus was a liberal.

      •  BS- they already have (4.00)
        Plenty of ads have already been refused, and clear channel puts up "I Love Bush" billboards while refusing many others.

        You must think we live in  a nation of laws, how quaint.  But this is now Bushite scum land, where the constitution and the laws do not apply to the Bushite scum ruling class.  Look at Jose Padilla, three and one half years in jail.  Where is his presumtion of innocence that Bush brays about for Scooter?  Where are even the charges against Jose Padilla?

        The rule of law ended on Dec. 12, 2000, the Bushite scum have been consolidating their power since then.

        How about that UCC ad showing people of all colors and backgrounds coming ti their church?  I bet that gets a lot of airtime on the wacko channels.  The RWCM wouldn't even air that on many stations.  We live in Bushite scum times and need to fight against him and his supporters.

        •  Wrong... those are issue ads they have refused (none)
          Campaign commercials during an election cycle cannot be refused. The Federal law is so specific it even states the ad rates than can be charged to the candidates.
          •  Try that on Sinclair next time (none)
            Sinclair will take your money, then sandwich your paid ad with an hour of free Repub campaign commercials disguised as Swift Boat Movies!  

            You seem to actually believe that US law applies in this country, how about that pesky little law against torture?  How do you reconcile that with the Jay Bybee torture memos?  Bushites have taken us through the looking glass, up is down, war is peace, etc.

            Repubs are innocent until proven guilty, poor dark skinned US citizens are "enemy combatants" to be locked up forever with no charges and no trial.

            •  Then you have a big decision to make (none)
              I know Sinclair is violating the law repeatedly. Like so many of the things just like this, you have a choice. Follow the law yourself and hope all those who are repeatedly violating the laws eventually have their crimes catch up to them...


              .... stop wasting your time on blogs whining about how terrible things have gotten and get busy planning an armed revolution.

              There is no in-between. You have to choose to work within the system, or get busy working outside the system. Bitching and moaning about how all possible efforts are hopeless helps nobody and changes nothing.

              •  Words can start the change (none)
                Words do have power, how about the "Common Sense" writings of Thomas Paine?

                Yes, there are some whiners on the blogs, but also plenty of others who get good ideas from the interchange of many intelligent people on the dailyKos and other reality-based blogs.

                •  Thomas Paine deeply involved in armed uprising (none)
                  The American Revolution... heard of it?

                  "...During the War of Independence Paine volunteered in the Continental Army and started with the writing of his highly influencial sixteen American Crisis papers, which he published between 1776 and 1783...."


                  Words are nice, but Common Sense didn't drive the British Army out of the US. The Continental Army did (with a big assist from the French Navy off the coast of Yorktown).  

      •  Agreed. Where is OUR strategy? (4.00)
        We will never, ever get the bulk of fundamentalists to vote Progressive on any kind of consistent basis- the terms are contradictory.  However, we could, with the right strategy, get them to reconsider their social policy votes, their support for domestic infrastructure, energy, family, education, election transparency, healthcare, etc.  Every fundamentalist is up to their ears in these issues everyday, yet has been distracted into thinking that gays, Muslims and abortionists are trying to break down their doors.

        They understand the evils of corruption and cronyism, once they are shown who is doing it and where.  Remember that they are only getting news from Fox and Christian media.

        It's time to put Jimmy Carter's Democratic Party back on the Christian media airwaves.  I love the idea of using direct quotes from the New Testament.  

        We need coalitions, not enemies.  

        My 2 cents.  Disclosure; Atheist UUer, here.  

        "An inglorious peace is better than a dishonest war." - Mark Twain

        by skwimmer on Fri Nov 04, 2005 at 06:53:21 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Are Fundamentalists really even Christians? (4.00)
          The right-wing Fundamentalists do not discuss the life of Jesus. Right-wing "fundamentalist" Christianity study of Jesus stops at Jesus' infancy, and doesn't pick Jesus' life up again until he's in the custody of Romans and being beaten within an inch of his life.

          There's also this whole "forgiveness of sins" issue. Fundamentalist preachers state that simply mouthing an apology for sins committed get ones sins forgiven by Jesus. That's heresy. Fundamentalists have completely bastardized the meaning of repentance. Repentance requires actually being sorry for committing a sin, and exerting great effort NOT TO COMMIT THE SAME SIN AGAIN. You can't ask for forgiveness for being greedy, and then immediately turn around and screw your employees out of their pensions. There's no remorse for the prior sins, nor attempt to change for the better in those actions. That means you are not forgiven.... a little detail the entire fundamentalist Christian movement ignores.

          Errr... I probably shouldn't get started. I could end up with pages and pages of false teachings the fundamentalist movement is responsible for.

      •  If MoveOn had any brains (none)
        they'd form a Christian wing and start throwing these ads up all over the place.

        Come get lost in our world:

        by MonkeyDog102 on Fri Nov 04, 2005 at 08:22:42 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  There already is one (kinda) (none)
          This is not Move-On related as it were... but it's a highly regarded politically-active progressive Christian group. Close enough?

          Mission Statement

          "Sojourners,, is a Christian ministry whose mission is to proclaim and practice the biblical call to integrate spiritual renewal and social justice.

          In response to this call, we offer a vision for faith in public life by:

              * publishing Sojourners magazine, SojoMail and other resources that address issues of faith, politics, and culture from a biblical perspective;
              * preaching, teaching, organizing, and public witness;
              * nurturing community by bringing together people from the various traditions and streams of the church;
              * hosting an annual program of voluntary service for education, ministry, and discipleship.

          In our lives and in our work, we seek to be guided by the biblical principles of justice, mercy, and humility

          3333 14th St. NW, Suite 200 Washington DC 20010
          Phone: 202-328-8842 or 1-800-714-7474
          Fax: 202-328-8757
          Web Questions:


          This is the group that Jim Wallis is connected to, and became kinda famous because of a close friend of Wallis'... Jimmy Carter.

      •  Jesus wasn't a liberal (none)
        He didn't give a shit about politics one way or the other. Politics is in and of the world; Jesus was all about the Heavenly Kingdom. He and his early followers rejected Jewish law not because they wanted to reform it but because, in their view, the laws of the world just didn't apply to them. Yes, he gave out food to the hungry and all that, but the state had no role in it.

        Come get lost in our world:

        by MonkeyDog102 on Fri Nov 04, 2005 at 08:26:54 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Jesus was a liberal as liberal is defined in USA (none)
          The right wing has politicised Christianity in this day and time. The right wing hasn't cared much about what Jesus thought on many things. This is just one point on a long list in which fundamentalist Christianity is in direct conflict with the teachings of Jesus.

          Just the fact that Jesus wanted his followers to opt out of worldly politics makes Jesus a liberal as liberals are defined in the US now. The fundamentalists try to force their version of Christianity into all things in this world including  business and politics.

          Because the teachings of Jesus matters so little in regard to Fundamentalist beliefs, I'm afraid Jesus' opinion on this point doesn't matter much any more, either.

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