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View Diary: DailyKos supporting Right Wing Talking Points?? (325 comments)

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  •  under certain conditions (none)
    I think that was fairly well documented.  People may have suspected that Bush would not abide by his word to Congress and the American people, but they were not obliged to assume lying on his part.

    "The state has no place in the bedrooms of the nation." - Pierre Trudeau

    by fishhead on Mon Nov 07, 2005 at 07:09:10 PM PST

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    •  yes they were (none)
      Bush had a record of lying and misleading.  It was plain stupid to take him at his word.
      •  not at that time (none)
        don't think the "do you trust this president?" poll numbers that we see today were the poll numbers that existed then.

        "I don't think Feingold and Clinton are really that far apart on Iraq." -- Howard Dean, 10/23/05

        by BiminiCat on Mon Nov 07, 2005 at 07:14:52 PM PST

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        •  poll numbers? (none)
          At that time, Bush had a record of being distrustful.  The poll numbers simply reflected the fact that noone had the political will to call him on it.  Citing poll numbers from that time is circular argumentation since the absence of an opposition party meant that there was no discussion of the misleading facts on which to influence public opinion.
          •  if you say his record was there (none)
            make that case.

            america thought he was trustworthy to the tune of about 70% at the time.

            "I don't think Feingold and Clinton are really that far apart on Iraq." -- Howard Dean, 10/23/05

            by BiminiCat on Mon Nov 07, 2005 at 07:19:05 PM PST

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            •  duh (none)
              just go back to the entire year before when he started the whole shifting arguments for war and his other initiatives.

              the lack of an opposition party is self-defeating and distorts true history.

            •  Hi BiminiCat, (none)
              sorry to disagree with you again, but, I'm not sure what you're after here.  Is it that those Dem Senators that voted for the IWR are not complicit in the subsequent invasion?  Is it that their votes were somehow conditional upon the exhaustion of all diplomatic measures, and they therefore can't be faulted for their support of IWR?

              I'm sorry, but I have trouble believing that Democratic Senators deep in the Beltway were as credulous as that 70% of the American public on the issue of Bush's trustworthiness.  It was clear from the moment that Bush started pounding the drums of war in summer of 2002 that they were going to follow through, no matter what.  I can't believe that Kerry, or Edwards, or whoever, soberly cast their votes for IWR believing that Bush would step back from the brink of war.

              Now if they didn't trust him, but voted for IWR anyway, that would be a different story.  They were afraid of electoral repercussions.  That I could see.  It doesn't make me respect them more, but I could sort of see them deciding, well, if he's going to war anyway, we need to signal our solidarity with a "wartime president."

              But I'm not going to buy that Kerry anticipated the diplomatic resolution of the crisis when he voted for IWR.

              Nothing requires a greater effort of thought than arguments to justify the rule of nonthought. -- Milan Kundera

              by Dale on Mon Nov 07, 2005 at 10:18:39 PM PST

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        •  the problem (none)
          is that the right is right on this one.  dumbest "strategic political" vote in a long, long time.
      •  perhaps you're right (none)
        But I think at that point, a lot of people thought that there might be limits to his venality.  Americans can sometimes suffer from a surfeit of idealism - hopefully most know better by now.

        "The state has no place in the bedrooms of the nation." - Pierre Trudeau

        by fishhead on Mon Nov 07, 2005 at 07:19:15 PM PST

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