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View Diary: DailyKos supporting Right Wing Talking Points?? (325 comments)

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  •  One Things for Sure (none)
    It most certainly WAS NOT a vote for Bush's War.

    Democrats cannot be blamed for taking a president's word seriously.

    Democrats wanted:
    A United Nations Security Council to adopt a new resolution setting out tough and immediate inspection requirements.
    Bush to use and listen to war inspectors first (he PROMISED that he would have a Council vote and then blew it off -- no one knew he would go that far).
    To work through all diplomatic channels (remember that Bush Sr had sent Baker everywhere in the lead up to Gulf War I, and Bush never even sent Powell once to Europe or the Middle East -- who could have guessed at the incompetence?).
    To build a serious coalition with NATO and Arab states.

    He didn't do any of those things.

    The resolution hoped to push a president in a direction, it failed.  But, we have an imperial presidency.

    Everybody talks about John Edwards' energy, intellect and charisma -- Bill Clinton

    by philgoblue on Mon Nov 07, 2005 at 07:59:56 PM PST

    •  Actually- yes Democrats can be blamed (none)
      because there job is not to trust. There job is to be the opposition.
      •  And they were (none)
        but the president of the united states has a great deal of power especially given that we were already at war.

        And note that several who voted for the IWR then voted against the $87 billion appropriation bill and it's "Bush's War is Great" essence.  I'd say that was being in the opposition and took huge guts given troops were in the field.

        Everybody talks about John Edwards' energy, intellect and charisma -- Bill Clinton

        by philgoblue on Mon Nov 07, 2005 at 08:14:22 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  If you're referring to Kerry's vote on the $87 bil (none)
          ... you're giving him far too much credit.  He voted against it because Dean was beating the crap out of him on the war.

          Another political calculation on Kerry's part that ended up backfiring.

          Is Dick Cheney in favor of torturing Scooter Libby in order to get "actionable intelligence?"

          by Bob Johnson on Mon Nov 07, 2005 at 08:17:04 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  no (none)
            he voted against it cause he knew none of that money would get to the troops.  

            prove me wrong.

            you're pretending to know why people to vote on things without actually doing any research.

            i can do that too.

            "I don't think Feingold and Clinton are really that far apart on Iraq." -- Howard Dean, 10/23/05

            by BiminiCat on Mon Nov 07, 2005 at 08:20:13 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  I can tell you (none)
              that Kerry said he voted against it because it wasn't paid for.

              Edwards voted against it out of hostility to the war as it was being waged and because of the corruption he saw in the crony no-bid contracts.

              Bless you for your courage Bimini!

              Everybody talks about John Edwards' energy, intellect and charisma -- Bill Clinton

              by philgoblue on Mon Nov 07, 2005 at 08:25:08 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

            •  Really? (none)
              Kerry was floundering.  Dean was considered anti-war and was far ahead in the polls.  There were stories at the time that Kerry was pissed because he was in a box because of his IWR vote.

              Rewrite history, if you'd like.

              Is Dick Cheney in favor of torturing Scooter Libby in order to get "actionable intelligence?"

              by Bob Johnson on Mon Nov 07, 2005 at 08:29:34 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  there were stories?? (4.00)
                LOL.

                of course... there were stories.

                i won't say anything more than that cause if that's all you have....

                "I don't think Feingold and Clinton are really that far apart on Iraq." -- Howard Dean, 10/23/05

                by BiminiCat on Mon Nov 07, 2005 at 08:35:49 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  Alas... (none)
                  Yes.  Reporting.  And news stories.

                  Do you recall the state of Kerry's campaign at the time of the $87 billion vote?

                  Is Dick Cheney in favor of torturing Scooter Libby in order to get "actionable intelligence?"

                  by Bob Johnson on Mon Nov 07, 2005 at 08:45:20 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  You mean (none)
                    when he was raising more big money than anyone else leading to the most heavily funded Democratic campaign ever? What about it?
                    •  Not then he wasn't. (none)
                      At the time of the $87 billion vote his campaign was flat on its ass.  This was long before his comeback.

                      Is Dick Cheney in favor of torturing Scooter Libby in order to get "actionable intelligence?"

                      by Bob Johnson on Mon Nov 07, 2005 at 08:56:28 PM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  That's just bull (none)
                        He and Dean were leading in money (6 to 7 mill). Most of Dean's money came from a year long campaign and mostly small money donors. Kerry had the big money donors locked up from the get go, it had nothing to do with Iraq but almost 20 years of doing good work in the Senate.
                    •  Ah... not at the time of the vote (none)

                      cheers,

                      Mitch Gore

                      Nobody will change America for you, you have to work to make it happen

                      by Lestatdelc on Mon Nov 07, 2005 at 09:01:14 PM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                    •  No, that vote (none)
                      Happened about the same time he was mortgaging a house to keep his campaign a float

                      Anyone who voted against the patriot act is too good for the Senate

                      Feingold for President

                      by Goldfish on Mon Nov 07, 2005 at 09:46:40 PM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  my point is simple (none)
                        Kerry was second to Dean in total money. Dean raised most of his money in small donations thanks to a year long and innovative campaign. Kerry was the front runner in the minds of the big money donors, and lead everyone in big money donations. Once that happened it was only a matter of time. I'm not applauding it, that's just the way these things usually wind up.
                  •  sure. it sucked (none)
                    but voting against it didn't start a reversal of fortune for him.  that was not why he voted against it.  

                    sure.  he wasn't doing well at that time.  so you conclude that he voted on something cause he wasn't doing well, when you also know that the folks he would be appealing to would be able to sniff that out.

                    it makes no sense.

                    he voted on the 87 billion for his own reasons.  go look them up.  his campaign turned around cause the media fucked over dean.

                    read more into it if you want.

                    "I don't think Feingold and Clinton are really that far apart on Iraq." -- Howard Dean, 10/23/05

                    by BiminiCat on Mon Nov 07, 2005 at 08:56:19 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  I think his campaign turned around because he (none)
                      ... turned around.  He got tough.  And he got focused.  And he got conise and less cautious.

                      I just wish he couls have kept up the campiagn style he developed in the last two weeks before the Iowa caucuses right through the general.

                      Instead, he reverted to his old, cautious self.

                      Too bad.  I worked hard for him.  He would have made a great President.

                      But back then, he was floundering.  And articles at the time, with comments from folks inside his campaign, indicated he ended up making the vote in an attempt to take some of the steam out of Dean's rush.

                      You can choose to believe that or not.  I do.  You don't.

                      Big deal.

                      Is Dick Cheney in favor of torturing Scooter Libby in order to get "actionable intelligence?"

                      by Bob Johnson on Mon Nov 07, 2005 at 09:00:08 PM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  if you want to believe that (none)
                        i can't stop you.

                        you have provided no articles.

                        and "folks inside the campaign" is strictly hearsay.

                        isn't that wonderful??  instead of relying on facts, you can whisper unconfirmed things about what people said behind the scenes.

                        that's so cool.

                        "I don't think Feingold and Clinton are really that far apart on Iraq." -- Howard Dean, 10/23/05

                        by BiminiCat on Mon Nov 07, 2005 at 09:07:05 PM PST

                        [ Parent ]

                      •  Well Your an Idiot (none)
                        Do you honestly think that the $87 billion vote got Kerry or Edwards the anti-war primary vote?  You're kidding right?  It turned around because Dean made stupid comments, Dean turned people off personally, and Iowans quickly fled to Kerry and Edwards.  And the anti-war vote just wasn't that big in the first place.

                        On the rest of your stuff, let's see the citations because I for one (and I'm sure there are many others) don't trust you at all.

                        Everybody talks about John Edwards' energy, intellect and charisma -- Bill Clinton

                        by philgoblue on Mon Nov 07, 2005 at 09:08:20 PM PST

                        [ Parent ]

          •  Yea right (none)
            Dean was a real serious threat.  Ha ha ha.  The guy got 11% of the votes in the democratic primary.  You think Kerry was really buying those way far out polls and the Time cover?

            Everybody talks about John Edwards' energy, intellect and charisma -- Bill Clinton

            by philgoblue on Mon Nov 07, 2005 at 08:23:22 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  The ability (none)
              The ability for some blogosphere posters to inflate their own importance (and Dean) never ceases to amaze me.

              Jus sayin

            •  At the time of the vote (none)
              ... Kerry wasn;t even registering in the polls and Dean was on top.

              Your continued displays of ignorance are entertaining.

              Is Dick Cheney in favor of torturing Scooter Libby in order to get "actionable intelligence?"

              by Bob Johnson on Mon Nov 07, 2005 at 08:26:43 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Your inability (none)
                to read and follow an argument is without bounds bobby.

                Everybody talks about John Edwards' energy, intellect and charisma -- Bill Clinton

                by philgoblue on Mon Nov 07, 2005 at 08:29:21 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  phil, dispute my point. (none)
                  Kerry was non-entity in the polls at the time of the $87 billion vote.  The pre-ordained frontrunner's campaign was a laughing stock.  Dean was way ahead.

                  Thus, Kerry's vote.

                  Just because you have no idea what you're talking about, phil, don't let that stop you from making a fool of yourself (again).

                  Is Dick Cheney in favor of torturing Scooter Libby in order to get "actionable intelligence?"

                  by Bob Johnson on Mon Nov 07, 2005 at 08:31:55 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Read (none)
                    I know you aren't very good at English, but I've discussed your "point" above.

                    It was clear to all but the members of the "Children's Crusade" that Dean was a flash in the pan.  Even then, anyone with political skills could see that his "foot-in-mouth" disease would quickly catch up with him.

                    You have no idea why Kerry voted the way he did.  It's just your speculation (again this has been said above).  So since your point is based just on your wishful thinking, it cannot be disputed.  Besides, you'll never learn.

                    Everybody talks about John Edwards' energy, intellect and charisma -- Bill Clinton

                    by philgoblue on Mon Nov 07, 2005 at 08:52:15 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Great, phil. (none)
                      Indeed.  Whatever you say.

                      (Why do I waste my time?)

                      Is Dick Cheney in favor of torturing Scooter Libby in order to get "actionable intelligence?"

                      by Bob Johnson on Mon Nov 07, 2005 at 09:01:31 PM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                    •  I've very rarely seen (4.00)
                      Someone so completely wrapped up in a self-constructed fantasy world, but in terms of revisionist history and selective interruption of facts, you quite frankly give the Powerline folks a run for their money

                      Anyone who voted against the patriot act is too good for the Senate

                      Feingold for President

                      by Goldfish on Mon Nov 07, 2005 at 09:51:36 PM PST

                      [ Parent ]

            •  That fake scream couldn't have helped. (none)
              Quite a bit changed after that little sabotage. Dean sure did raise some netroots money though.
        •  one word (none)
          accountability. until you stick that into your talking points for the democrats- we will continued to be impeached in the cross.
          •  huh? (none)

            Everybody talks about John Edwards' energy, intellect and charisma -- Bill Clinton

            by philgoblue on Mon Nov 07, 2005 at 08:30:56 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  i will make this simple (none)
              own up to what you do. don't make excuses. don't say it was the president. don't say well but i did x after it was too late. just say- yes, i made a mistake, now i am trying to do things to correct my mistake. the difference between the way you are talking and my way- is that my way isn't making excuses- its saying yes as a leader i am accountable. the truth is i dont care about the vote exept that its almost sounds like little kids trying to make excuses because they know they got caught. i dont think our leadership in general thinks this own all issues. but here it's just insulting to hear over and over again that we is plainly true is somehow not.

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