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View Diary: DailyKos supporting Right Wing Talking Points?? (325 comments)

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  •  Ah. (4.00)
    So, we who were insisting the Dems NOT vote for the IWR because we knew Bush would use it as a blank check were doing Rove's work?! I had no idea! I guess the check got lost in the mail.

    I'm not part of a redneck agenda - Green Day

    by eugene on Mon Nov 07, 2005 at 08:53:56 PM PST

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    •  no (none)
      you're doing roves work now by deciding that helping out dems is a bad thing.

      "I don't think Feingold and Clinton are really that far apart on Iraq." -- Howard Dean, 10/23/05

      by BiminiCat on Mon Nov 07, 2005 at 08:58:22 PM PST

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      •  Right. (none)
        So, helping Dems by rewriting history is a good thing. Understood.

        Just so we're clear - anything else I should know? That all 49 Senate Dems voted against the Patriot Act? That the Dems fought hard against the anti-gay ballot measures in 2004? That it was Hillary Clinton who went down to the World Trade Center with the bullhorn and the firefighters and not Dubya?

        I'm not part of a redneck agenda - Green Day

        by eugene on Mon Nov 07, 2005 at 09:02:03 PM PST

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        •  it's not rewriting history (none)
          it's the truth.

          read the diary.

          "I don't think Feingold and Clinton are really that far apart on Iraq." -- Howard Dean, 10/23/05

          by BiminiCat on Mon Nov 07, 2005 at 09:07:57 PM PST

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          •  it's possible for something to be (none)
            factual and still not be the truth. the truth is a complicated animal- ie, what facts do you live out, what facts were really weighing on the democrats at the time, what was being covered in the media, what were the republicans doing, etc. ie, not just with iraq but in terms of the 2002 election etc.
            •  that sounds like something kerry would say (none)
              it's possible for something to be factual and still not be the truth.

              didn't kerry actually say something like at some point??

              "I don't think Feingold and Clinton are really that far apart on Iraq." -- Howard Dean, 10/23/05

              by BiminiCat on Mon Nov 07, 2005 at 09:37:38 PM PST

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              •  the difference between what i said and kerry (none)
                said is accountability. for example, if i fuck up which i often do, i don't use that it was a complicated matter as an excuse. saying that the situation was complicated isn't an answer to accountability. saying you know what- i did make a mistake in a complicated situation with that vote (which is all he had to say in the fall of 2004) but we can't dwell on that mistake becuase i have a plan going forward. whereas his approach was to deny his accountability for his decision.
              •  ps (none)
                if i am not making my self clear- what's killed the democrats is the sense that we aren't acting as accountable as leaders- rather we sound like we are spinning it.
                •  we sound like we are spinning it (none)
                  cause repugs have,... something i don't mention in the diary, but i'll be willing to say it now....  we sound like we are spinning cause repugs won the frame war on IWR.

                  the fact is, despite the facts i put forth in this diary...  dems will have to respond AS IF a vote on IWR was a vote for war.

                  it's an uphill battle.

                  really.  if the entire country believed a vote on IWR was NOT a vote for war, dems wouldn't sound like they were spinning.  

                  "I don't think Feingold and Clinton are really that far apart on Iraq." -- Howard Dean, 10/23/05

                  by BiminiCat on Mon Nov 07, 2005 at 10:35:58 PM PST

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                  •  but thats the point (none)
                    a leader doesnt continue to fight and whine about stuff liek this. they shape the debate going forward- the past is the past and that cant be changed. i know i am saying a lot of cute sayings- but a lot of this is pretty simple stuff that i think the democrats need to remember. right now- all we need to say- is that we made a mistake, we are accountable for that- so now we are going to do x going forward. if they said that- i believe they would win over a lot of people. you are never going to get everyone, but this approach of parsing shit until its meaningless only gets you more of the same of what we have seen thus far. to win you got to throw the other side off their game.
          •  And you've found converts (none)
            or at least shown that there are a large ammount of folks here that don't by the "Purge All Who Voted For the War" meme.

            92 votes

            IWR was a vote for war: 46%
            IWR was NOT a vote for war: 53%

            Congrats and good night.

            Everybody talks about John Edwards' energy, intellect and charisma -- Bill Clinton

            by philgoblue on Mon Nov 07, 2005 at 09:32:28 PM PST

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            •  what i find interesting (none)
              is how divided we are on some very basic assumptions.

              i didn't actually think all kossacks would answer "yes."  i would have predicted that a majority of kossacks know... at least in intellectual terms.. that a vote on IWR was not a vote for this war... but we have this issue.  how do we answer the question?

              inevitably, all the polls i post end up in some variation of 50/50.

              "I don't think Feingold and Clinton are really that far apart on Iraq." -- Howard Dean, 10/23/05

              by BiminiCat on Mon Nov 07, 2005 at 10:20:43 PM PST

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