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View Diary: DailyKos supporting Right Wing Talking Points?? (325 comments)

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  •  it's possible for something to be (none)
    factual and still not be the truth. the truth is a complicated animal- ie, what facts do you live out, what facts were really weighing on the democrats at the time, what was being covered in the media, what were the republicans doing, etc. ie, not just with iraq but in terms of the 2002 election etc.
    •  that sounds like something kerry would say (none)
      it's possible for something to be factual and still not be the truth.

      didn't kerry actually say something like at some point??

      "I don't think Feingold and Clinton are really that far apart on Iraq." -- Howard Dean, 10/23/05

      by BiminiCat on Mon Nov 07, 2005 at 09:37:38 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  the difference between what i said and kerry (none)
        said is accountability. for example, if i fuck up which i often do, i don't use that it was a complicated matter as an excuse. saying that the situation was complicated isn't an answer to accountability. saying you know what- i did make a mistake in a complicated situation with that vote (which is all he had to say in the fall of 2004) but we can't dwell on that mistake becuase i have a plan going forward. whereas his approach was to deny his accountability for his decision.
      •  ps (none)
        if i am not making my self clear- what's killed the democrats is the sense that we aren't acting as accountable as leaders- rather we sound like we are spinning it.
        •  we sound like we are spinning it (none)
          cause repugs have,... something i don't mention in the diary, but i'll be willing to say it now....  we sound like we are spinning cause repugs won the frame war on IWR.

          the fact is, despite the facts i put forth in this diary...  dems will have to respond AS IF a vote on IWR was a vote for war.

          it's an uphill battle.

          really.  if the entire country believed a vote on IWR was NOT a vote for war, dems wouldn't sound like they were spinning.  

          "I don't think Feingold and Clinton are really that far apart on Iraq." -- Howard Dean, 10/23/05

          by BiminiCat on Mon Nov 07, 2005 at 10:35:58 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  but thats the point (none)
            a leader doesnt continue to fight and whine about stuff liek this. they shape the debate going forward- the past is the past and that cant be changed. i know i am saying a lot of cute sayings- but a lot of this is pretty simple stuff that i think the democrats need to remember. right now- all we need to say- is that we made a mistake, we are accountable for that- so now we are going to do x going forward. if they said that- i believe they would win over a lot of people. you are never going to get everyone, but this approach of parsing shit until its meaningless only gets you more of the same of what we have seen thus far. to win you got to throw the other side off their game.

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