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View Diary: Energy from the Moon (165 comments)

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  •  I don't think anyone said that the only energy to (none)
    run the thermal depolymerization process has to come from the process itself.  Solar power or wind power would work well with it, and if all it did was power itself and clean up the stinkies, it would still be a plus.  If no net energy were created---unlikely or it will never draw investers and there are some pretty powerful ones into TD----we would get the benefit of a nicer and healthier environment.

    There was a diary that I haven't been able to find talking about solar roofs for barns to help pay energy costs of the biodiesel process.

    I've been wondering if the processes could be built down to small and inexpensive enough units to handle waste just from small towns---and it would have to be fairly small because each batch must be like kind stuff.   How about using the waste from pumped septic tanks?  or maybe composting toilets?  or.........

    A borrow and binge republican's head explodes when its pointed out that the high tax era was our longest sustained growth. oooops there goes another one

    by maybeeso in michigan on Fri Nov 11, 2005 at 07:09:33 PM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  As I said (none)
      I think we're getting to the common ground here. As I said, TD will be an important process.  It is a useful form of recycling. All I am saying is that it has no prayer of, for example, eliminating our dependence on foreign oil (or even of reducing it since all of its inputs depend on other energy inputs). If you go back and read my first comment, you will see that I suggested solar power for TD plants.

      Really I am not running down TD! It simply isn't going to be a source of energy.

      What it will be is a source of oil that will become economical when crude oil prices rise to a certain level. It is also going to be one of the sources we will have to turn to for plastics, lubricants, and pharmaceuticals when conventional oil gets too expensive. Yes, it squeezes more efficiency out of present energy use, but it gains nothing. All of the energy you get from TD is energy that was originally put in from some other source.  (Crude oil is the same, it just seems like magic because nature put the energy in there over millions of years, we didn't have to. With TD, the waste is all produced by energy we had to put in.)

      So at this point, I think we are violently agreeing. TD is important and useful, but it won't solve our energy problem. No one technology will. Our only way out is to substantially diversify our energy sources and to shift as much as possible from extraction sources to sustainable sources.

      [-7.13, -8.41]

      by evilpenguin on Sat Nov 12, 2005 at 06:56:00 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  If I may reply twice... (none)
      Please do not take my discussion as an attempt to shoot you down, put down TD, or lessen your, or anyone else's interest in it.

      I'm just trying to point out a thermodynamic fact. All along I have maintained it is a good thing. I'll drop this here. I'm just wondering if you see what I am aiming at?

      Thanks for a good discussion.

      [-7.13, -8.41]

      by evilpenguin on Sat Nov 12, 2005 at 07:11:52 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  My only quibble here is that the waste is extra (none)
        after we have the product that the energy was expended to produce, and it is in that sense that I'm considering the waste a freebie.  We didn't use the energy to grow turkey innards , but to grow the carcass that we roast for Thanksgiving.

        I think we're in agreement here except on that level.

        There was a science fiction story about 25-30 years ago about a future that was hydrocarbon poor and mining was a going concern almost like  goldrush in old landfills.  They were so grateful that their ancestors had the sense to put plastics and stuff in common areas so they could have them.  I can't remember the writer or where I read it, but it really stuck.  If anyone recognizes the story, I'd love to know.

        In the name of fighting terror, we have terrorized, and in the name of defending our values, we have betrayed them. Leonard Pitts

        by maybeeso in michigan on Sat Nov 12, 2005 at 05:10:01 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

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