Skip to main content

View Diary: 2008 Dems and Iraq (215 comments)

Comment Preferences

  •  Sorta (none)
    We'd have to take the training of Iraqis away from the contractors and give it to our NATO allies.

    Yes, we'd have to finally negotiate with the Sunni in good faith and make some compromises and then force them on Sistani (who it was foolish to back in the first place).

    But, you've got a point about the harsh realities.  Of course, agreeing with Armando, this is all just politics and nothing of this will be forced on Bush.

    Everybody talks about John Edwards' energy, intellect and charisma -- Bill Clinton

    by philgoblue on Tue Nov 29, 2005 at 09:29:30 AM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  Right (none)
      Bob seems to want the "easy way out" if you will, to me.  Since doing it is going to be hard, and more lives will be lost, then heck, lets just give up.

      However, I don't think he has any basis to say that progress is impossible to achieve.

      And, as you said, Armando is right.  This, ultimately, comes down to political menuvering.  

      I think a "pull out now" position is a loser in every way, both politically, and just because of the reality of the situation.

      It's a mistake to think that a poll that says "a majority of americans think the war is a mistake" is equivilent to saying most Americans want us to leave now.  I think the war is a mistake, but that doesn't mean I think we should just pull everyone out immediately, and I have the feeling that this is the case for most people who think that going in was a mistake.

      And when it comes to reality, one almost guarantees the worst possible situation if we pull out now.  If we at least try to set some goals and try to accomplish them (theoretically if Bush were to do that, which he won't), it, at the very least, won't guarantee the worst possible situation.  It may not be a good situation, but there is a good chance that it will be a better situation.

      anyway, i'm ranting again.

      •  Are you really this ignorant? (none)
        Bob seems to want the "easy way out" if you will, to me.  Since doing it is going to be hard, and more lives will be lost, then heck, lets just give up.

        However, I don't think he has any basis to say that progress is impossible to achieve.

        I am not saying "give up." Quite the contrary.

        Odom correctly points out that NATO, the UN and the Arab League want nothing to do with Iraq as long as we are still on the ground there.  It's our train wreck and they do not want the blame for the mess we've made.  They want to be heroes, not part of the problem.

        They will not move to to help until we vacate the premises.

        You are living in some dream world where the Bush administration will suddenly become competent, give up the contracts for training they've awarded to their crony firms and do the right thing.

        And that is a dream world...

        Visit Satiric Mutt -- my contribution to the written cholesterol now clogging the arteries of the Internet.

        by Bob Johnson on Tue Nov 29, 2005 at 09:51:12 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  Risk of a worsening situation if we stay (none)
        There are risks on both sides.  You make a sensible argument that things will get worse if we leave, but if our army disintegrates under the stress of what is in effect a prolonged Stgalingrad, the strategic situation of the United States will be much worse.  Iraq is not the only potential problem on our plate.  A ruined volunteer army with no stomach for a draft among the American population is an invitation to disaster.  You have to stop thinking of this as a purely Iraq problem.  It is a problem for our military position overall.  That is why the brass want to get us out of there ASAP.  We can survive mud on our face from military defeat in Iraq.  We can't survive the destruction of our land army.
    •  Odom is right on this. (none)
      He has said over and over that NATO, the UN and the Arab League won't step up to help until we're out.

      The advantage of arguing for a withdrawal timetable is that it forces incumbent Republicans to defend this train wreck at a time when Americans are rapidly turning against the war.

      I would follow Odom's advice and make that the Dem talking points on this.

      Visit Satiric Mutt -- my contribution to the written cholesterol now clogging the arteries of the Internet.

      by Bob Johnson on Tue Nov 29, 2005 at 09:36:05 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

Subscribe or Donate to support Daily Kos.

  • Recommended (127)
  • Community (63)
  • Bernie Sanders (44)
  • Elections (34)
  • Hillary Clinton (28)
  • 2016 (27)
  • Culture (27)
  • Climate Change (26)
  • Civil Rights (23)
  • Environment (22)
  • Science (21)
  • Labor (18)
  • Law (18)
  • Spam (17)
  • Barack Obama (17)
  • Media (17)
  • Republicans (17)
  • Trans-Pacific Partnership (15)
  • White House (14)
  • International (13)
  • Click here for the mobile view of the site