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View Diary: 2008 Dems and Iraq (215 comments)

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  •  It's the entire Ministry of the Interior (none)
    not just a few bad apples.  The MinInt and the "commandos" are now all Badr Brigade.

    See NYT today.

    Everybody talks about John Edwards' energy, intellect and charisma -- Bill Clinton

    by philgoblue on Tue Nov 29, 2005 at 09:30:26 AM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  He won't bother to read the articles. (none)
      ...

      Visit Satiric Mutt -- my contribution to the written cholesterol now clogging the arteries of the Internet.

      by Bob Johnson on Tue Nov 29, 2005 at 09:32:39 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Well (none)
        the New York Times article doesn't say that it's anything but "a few bad apples," while the Ministry of the Interior claim is made by someone who has a serious ax to grind (Allawi).

        The Star Tribune actually seems to make the case that it's a "few bad apples" by saying "Shiite Muslim militia members have infiltrated Iraq's police force and are carrying out sectarian killings under the color of law"  meaning that this isn't a problem of the Iraqi security forces in general, but of a small group which joined up with the intent to do this.

        In anycase, is this an issue of "they're gonna do it, no matter what" or a failure of management and oversight?

        •  Who cares? (none)
          Do you really expect this administration to get it right?

          What makes you think they'll start now?

          Visit Satiric Mutt -- my contribution to the written cholesterol now clogging the arteries of the Internet.

          by Bob Johnson on Tue Nov 29, 2005 at 09:45:31 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  That's a rather irrelevent point, isn't it? (none)
            Whether or not Bush would actually do it or not certainly doesn't seem to deter people from holding a "pull out now" position, so why should it prevent me from holding a "we need a timetable with benchmarks" position?
            •  There you go again... (none)
              Black and white.  "Pull out now" or stay.  That';s it with you.  You are so pathetically disingenuous in your argument.

              The reason for arguing FOR a withdrawal timeline is to force incumbent Republicans to defend this train wreck at a time when Americans are rapidly turning against it.

              Biden's nonsense about "benchmarks" and "goals" just provides cover to Bush and the Republicans.  His stated position is now Bush's stated position.  There is no advantage in that.

              Visit Satiric Mutt -- my contribution to the written cholesterol now clogging the arteries of the Internet.

              by Bob Johnson on Tue Nov 29, 2005 at 09:55:21 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  if you didn't notice (none)
                Every single person up there is arguing for a timetable.  Now, that timetable may not be "pull out by date X" and I don't think it should be.

                Having a timetable for goals that should be achieved before we leave accomplishes the same goal. "We want to accomplish goals A, B, C, and D and once those are achieved, we'll leave"  

                Now, it probably wouldn't be as simple as that, and in reality probably should be a combination of completion of goals and time (we don't want to be there forever if the goals are never achieved, but we do want to give them the chance to actually achieve the goals).

                Perhaps something like set troop withdrals at "completition of goal A or 6 months.  Completion of goal B or 1 year. Completion of goal C or 2 years. Completition of goal D, or 3 years, etc, whichever comes first"  And set the time requirement significantly past the time when that goal should have been completed.

                •  Now you're adding dates and targets. (none)
                  Thanks for changing horses in midstream.  And to go with the analogy, I won't look a gift horse in the mouth.

                  Visit Satiric Mutt -- my contribution to the written cholesterol now clogging the arteries of the Internet.

                  by Bob Johnson on Tue Nov 29, 2005 at 10:06:34 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

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