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View Diary: Clinton sponsors anti-flag burning law (461 comments)

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  •  A quintissential Clinton performance (4.00)
    She favors a criminal statute, like the one found unconstitutional several years ago, but opposes a constitutional amendment. Covers all the bases, no?
    •  This isn't a "moderate" stance (4.00)
      it's just a stupid, pandering, faux-pro-military stance.  

      I guess she wants to be the "Go-To Dem" (for Pubs) for when Joementum steps up to the Defense Department.

      •  On the other hand ... (4.00)
        -- only if the law were to include a provision that it would be revisited after a set period of time to evaluate its effects -- since it would remove this easily exploited issue from debate ... I think it just might be worth it.  Also, I cannot forget that many Union soldiers gave their lives just to carry our flag into battle (I have read accounts of one soldier after another picking up the flag as carrier after carrier is shot down), and honoring that sacrifice seems worth something to me.
        •  Let's honor the sacrifice of Union soldiers by (4.00)
          banning the displaying of the Confederate flag!
        •  this is such a non issue (none)
          I really don't care....where does she stand on universal health care, raising taxes on the wealthy, social programs, Iraq - where she has been non-forthcoming so far - etc.That's what I'm interested in. She raises mucho dinero for the party. Getting so bent out of shape over this is ridiculous IMHO.So she'll get a few southerners to take a second look at her,that's good politics.
          •  The basic freedom (none)
            of political expression is not a "non-issue".  It is fundamental.
            •  Well ,protest in (none)
              every way, shape and form, just don't burn the flag. You'd only be alienating a whole bunch of people by doing it anyway, and not just rednecks. I'm sure some progressives have mixed feelings about it. What is the point of burning the flag anyway except to say,"Hey, I'm free to burn the flag, what a great country!" If this gets passed, watch flag burning incidents skyrocket, that's what's funny about this too.
              •  I am not advocating burning the flag (none)
                I am advocating liberty.  There is a difference.  
                •  So you're pro choice in the (none)
                  flag burning issue,I'm pro liberty too, but this is an issue solely for posturing purposes....
                  •  No Glickman, you are wrong (none)
                    It is naked pandering to the right.  That it does not impact our every day lives much is hardly the point.  She is openly, smilingly joining hands with the ideologues who invent fake wedge issues to take the electorate's eyes off those issues that DO affect their daily lives.  It is taking her base for granted so severely that she is willing to sell out the First Amendment and trample on her base's values and run toward the center WAY before she has locked up a nomination.

                    I can only smile that it will really turn off the hardcore base when she needs it most: in the early primary season.

                  •  three times (none)
                    i gave you the benefit of the doubt in this thread, thinking you would even ONCE listen to what was being communicated to you.

                    ok, neocon, no more: blow me.

                    •  that's a good one (none)
                      1. if you'd were beyond god you'd know what you claim is absurd

                      2. if you were beyond god you could articulate your positions with great clarity and language, not resort to absurd mud slinging

                      3. if you were beyond god you could blow yourself

                      4. who cares if you give me any benefits of any doubts - who are you? If you were beyond god you'd be rich and powerful and one would hope beneficent towards us mere mortals - somehow I get the feeling you're neither.....
      •  What she fails to realize (4.00)
        is that she can go all out conservative but unless she changes parties and leaves Bill....the Republicans hate her and they will never vote for her. She could duel every Democrat ala Zell and they still would not vote for her. She has no idea how divisive and angry people get on both sides when talking about her. I think she is only popular among DLC types and huge Clintonistas.

        America was not built on fear. America was built on courage, on imagination and an unbeatable determination to do the job at hand-Harry S. Truman

        by wishingwell on Mon Dec 05, 2005 at 09:38:40 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  It's also not an aweful one... (none)

        Face it, she will have her hardest time with some of these wedge issues. If she can neutalize them early, that's good for all of us. It is already illegal to burn a cross to intimidate someone, why not a flag as well? Really, this just seems to be codifying things that are already largely illegal (as mentioned before, it's likely illegal to burn anything on federal property), and if it euthanizes this particular debate, then I say, good riddence.

        If the cost of putting someone in office who will attempt universal healthcare (whose idea was that last time?) and look out for the working class is that we have to pass a law that is totally irrelevant just to shut up some of the more rabid republicans, then that's just the way it is.

    •  What did you expect from (4.00)
      the Queen of Phony?  It's all crap, all the time with her.  Why is she the "frontrunner?"  The base hates the war, and she's out there as the #1 cheerleader.  Maybe she and Bubba and Lieberman are having a secret love triangle, that would explain a lot of things.
      •  Money (4.00)
        and backing by elites... the usual thing, just like Kerry.

        The people? Who gives a crap what they think, we tell them what to think.

        snark

        We are all wearing the blue dress now.

        by PLS on Mon Dec 05, 2005 at 06:13:31 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Maybe I remember 2004 wrong but, (none)
          I don't remember the elites being lined up behind Kerry.  

          Clinton is expecting a coronation in 2008, putting Kerry's nomination win in those terms hardly seems accurate.

          •  It was only after NH (none)
            That MacAuliffe and the Media crowned Kerry. But prior to that, donations were given to other candidates. I do not remember Kerry even being mentioned this early out and only after Iowa. In fact, I seem to recall the DLC seemed more behind Gephardt till he faltered.

            America was not built on fear. America was built on courage, on imagination and an unbeatable determination to do the job at hand-Harry S. Truman

            by wishingwell on Mon Dec 05, 2005 at 09:41:08 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

      •  Hillary is the "front runner" (none)
        solely because of name recognition,period.I have no idea who the Dem. candidate will be in 2008 but it will not be her.
    •  Hey, Sister Pander-jah (none)
      Please stay in Chappa-qua
    •  Maybe... (none)
      She can "vote for it before she votes against it" to make her position on the matter even more crystal clear.  No ambiguity here, eh?

      I don't see anyone on the fence being swayed by this desperate attempt at pandering to "moderates".

      I do, however, see a lot of the "base" getting really pissed off at this, myself included.  There's no way in hell I'd back her in 2008.

      I'm so metal I have the unlisted Number of the Beast.

      by MjrMjr on Mon Dec 05, 2005 at 07:30:11 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Yes (none)
        and NO way are moderate Republicans going to vote for her so that leaves only conservative Dems aka DINOs and someConservative but anti Republican leaning  Independents. And some Independents will not go for her because of her pro war stance.  But I cannot see Progressives or Moderate Democrats going for her. She is too conservative for some moderate Democrats I know.

        America was not built on fear. America was built on courage, on imagination and an unbeatable determination to do the job at hand-Harry S. Truman

        by wishingwell on Mon Dec 05, 2005 at 09:43:41 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  Could it be? (none)
      she hopes to diffuse the politcal momentum of the issue she opposes by supporting it in a way that is harmless?

      let her oponent outflank her to the right. make them stand up and say "we should ammend the constitution to eliminate this right!"

      Hillary can be accused of a lot of things. Being tactically stupid is not one of them.

    •  Could it be? (none)
      she hopes to diffuse the politcal momentum of the issue she opposes by supporting it in a way that is harmless?

      let her oponent outflank her to the right. make them stand up and say "we should ammend the constitution to eliminate this right!"

      Hillary can be accused of a lot of things. Being tactically stupid is not one of them.

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