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View Diary: Corrupt Democracy 21 (155 comments)

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  •  I think he is (none)
    Based on his own logic that trying to influence members of congress is inherently corrupt.

    And he hates the First Amendment too. And he's a hypocrite.

    •  That's ridiculous (4.00)
      This guy has been the force behind most major post Watergate government corruption scandals.

      And the way the lobbying system is set up right now, yes, it is inherently corrupt, as the law is vague and hazy, and try finding one Hill staffer who understands it. It needs to be reformed, badly, because people break the law without intending to break it, and people can get away with truly swarmy things under the auspices of the law. The lobbying laws are terrible.

      Does that mean that because Fred is advocating his position, mostly through a melee of press releases and a series of meetings is a hypocrit? No! Of course not, any reform to the current law would clearly allow people to have meetings with congressmen. However, the junkets, the skyboxes? That needs to go, and Fred is NOT doing that sort of thing.

      "If Kaine...can win by 6 points, then it's safe to say this is no longer a red state. Virginia is now a purple state" - Chuck Todd

      by VirginiaBelle on Tue Dec 06, 2005 at 12:25:41 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  You seem to be missing the point (none)
        That Democracy 21 is lobbying COngress (thereby being "corrupt" if you buy into the reasoning that paid for lobbying of COngress is inherently corrupt) while arguing that truly open and unfettered public discourse (blogs) be stymied and regulated.

        We can both agree that what the people at Democracy 21 have done has been fighting the good fight, but on this they are wrong and hypocritically so.

        cheers,

        Mitch Gore

        Nobody will change America for you, you have to work to make it happen

        by Lestatdelc on Tue Dec 06, 2005 at 01:00:58 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  And that is an intentional misreading (none)
          Of Fred's comments, as well as an intentional misunderstanding of the differences between paid lobbying and advocacy.

          Fred's comments referred specifically to soft-money laundering by paid lobbyists used to entice lawmakers to enact specific legislation. And to the fact that this is in large part caused by antiquated and ridiculously confusing lobbying laws that are vague at best and therefore prone to abuse by anyone who cares to do so and even some people who are just, well, sloppy.

          Democracy 21's "war room" etc., was the organization itself meeting with Congressmen, none of which will have or will ever receive donations from Democracy 21. They first of all represented themselves. Secondly, did not donate, and lastly, used no soft money. Under kos' definition of what is and what is not acceptable to Fred, no one would be allowed to visit their Congressperson to argue for an issue they care about, because that would be tainted lobbying. That's not at all what's being said. What's being said is that lobbyists should wine, dine, and buy Congresspeople through junkets, skyboxes, and donations wormed through third parties.

          I understand kos' frustration on the internet regulation stuff, although I respectfully disagree, but this is, frankly, crap.

          "If Kaine...can win by 6 points, then it's safe to say this is no longer a red state. Virginia is now a purple state" - Chuck Todd

          by VirginiaBelle on Tue Dec 06, 2005 at 01:09:35 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  WTF? (none)
            WTF? is this Kos?

            Warning: Posting rate exceeded

            You have exceeded this site's maximum posting rate. You are only allowed to post a certain number of comments or stories in a short period of time. Your user account is now locked from posting for five minutes, after which it will become normal again. Be warned though: if you attempt to post again while you're locked out, the timeout period will double, and this will keep happening as long as you keep trying to post. Walk away for a few minutes, have a nice cup of coffee, come back, and everything will be cool. Thanks.

            WTF kind of "posting rate" is this shit?

            I have posted at the following rate in the past hour:

            12/06/2005 13:14:36 PST
            12/06/2005 13:04:12 PST
            12/06/2005 13:03:33 PST
            12/06/2005 13:00:58 PST
            12/06/2005 12:57:20 PST
            12/06/2005 12:38:45 PST
            12/06/2005 12:36:22 PST

            What sort of whacky-low threshold has been immplmented?

            I have never run across any such rate warning/limiting here... ever.

            Is this some new policy?

            If so I really suggest you change the thresholds, because posting comments once in a 3+ minutes or so rate is hardly something that should be disabling someone.

            cheers,

            Mitch Gore

            Nobody will change America for you, you have to work to make it happen

            by Lestatdelc on Tue Dec 06, 2005 at 02:34:12 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Ironically (none)
              I received this replying to YOUR previous comment. I assumed it was because the site has been iffy all day, but perhaps the higher-ups are telling us to cool it.

              "If Kaine...can win by 6 points, then it's safe to say this is no longer a red state. Virginia is now a purple state" - Chuck Todd

              by VirginiaBelle on Tue Dec 06, 2005 at 02:56:35 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

            •  bugged me (none)
              but inevitable.

              I wrote a dense and unreadable piece - but accurate - about this phenomenon.

              Peer to peer politics, netroots, this rises like the other peer to peer phenomenon and then maxes out, a structure of cruft forms making a heirarchy out of the peer to peer distribution, and it protects the voice of the top, and the common voice diminishes.

              It's attributed to "scaling" and is in fact the phenomenon "failing to scale".

              No, large groups don't need that, large egos do.

    •  that argument (none)
      is too trivial for you kos.

      it's a gotcha.

      that's not the real difference of opinion.

      you have wandered into a pro-corporate area and so he's corrupt.

      no.

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