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View Diary: Unimpressed by the Tookster (42 comments)

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  •  Come on... (none)
    If he is sincere in saying he did not commit those crimes, isn't your asking for him to confess the equivalent of a coerced confession?

    And say that he does release info on the Crips - just how long do you think a "snitch" is gonna survive in prison?

    Since he has rehabilitated himself, Stanley Williams has done more to curtail gang violence than most elected officials.  I think it's absolutely fine for him to spend the rest of his life in jail proving his innocence, but if he is doing good for the community right now, why do you want to kill him?

    Damn, you wouldn't think that this is a Progressive/Liberal blog from the way you people are talking about "frying" him - shouldn't we be acting more like "real" Christians and people of faith now instead of shouting for blood like the ancient Romans at the Coliseum?

    "A CONSERVATIVE is a man who is too cowardly to fight and too fat to run." --Elbert Hubbard

    by Rico on Fri Dec 09, 2005 at 03:01:38 PM PST

    •  Huh?? (none)
      "...--shouldn't we be acting more like "real" Christians and people of faith now instead of shouting for blood like the ancient Romans at the Coliseum?"

      Shouldn't we remember that "we" are not all Christian, whether "real" or not?  

      Rational people can ethically accept the death penalty as just but reject capital punishment based on the historic and chronic inequity of its imposition--hyperbole about the ancient Romans notwithstanding.  

      One more thing:  your granting Williams permission to refuse to accept responsibility or "snitch" as a means of self-preservation is deeply silly.  One cannot reform--as he claims--without setting the record right.  It's Step One in the multi-step process of rehabilitation.  Cons must confront those they have injured, take personal responsibility, and apologize.  There can be no reform or rehabilitation without full disclosure.  And taking this step does not ensure that the con is going to be safe or make it, but it's required nonetheless.  I've spent time with tearful cons confessing, in excruciating detail, their crimes during violence prevention/anger management therapy sessions.  In followup, many do all the right things only to land back in prison on similar charges in no time.  

      Criminal thinking is very, very hard to mitigate and correct.  The habits of mind are deeply entrenched and often, sadly, intractable.  There can be no, absolutely NO, room for self-serving prevarication or dissembling.  Correctional professions will not tolerate it and society should not tolerate it, either.  

      It is what it is.  

      -7.38, -6.62 Jesus + Fetus = SCOTUS (math by Jon Stewart)

      by lightiris on Fri Dec 09, 2005 at 03:29:22 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  look... (4.00)
        Use the terms "Christians", "people of faith", "the enlighted community" anyway you want, but you should be accountable for the actions your government does in your name, and the results that come from that.  And I really don't think "ethical" and "rational" people can except the death penaty - not only have there been recent examples of people being executed that were INNOCENT, but the whole capital sentencing system is skewed by issues like wealth and race.

        And if you don't think he will die sooner if he talks, you just don't know anything about life in prisons in realistic, day-to-day terms. I have spent time with people in prison as well - one in my immediate family. If you think people can talk and live, either you have never been where I have, or you are embellishing.

        Besides - I don't feel this way about the Death Penalty just regarding "Tookie"'s issue.  I feel this way so that in case I am wrongly accused of a crime, I'll have adequate council - mind you, not what Robert Blake could afford, just economy-sized council.

        I'm doing this so that there are some safe guards on the back end of our legal system while this administration decimates Habeas Corpus from the front.

        And I'm doing this so that we can all have equal justice under the law. Some of you might have never had to worry about that - I am a Mexican-American male that grew up in East Los Angeles, so I'm sure I have different life experiences that color my view on whether people ever are wrongly convicted.

        I think these kinds of things are tests for Progressives - if we can whether this kind of wedge issue, we might be able to put away our bickering enough to make our politicians reflect our values instead of those of major corporations.  

        "A CONSERVATIVE is a man who is too cowardly to fight and too fat to run." --Elbert Hubbard

        by Rico on Fri Dec 09, 2005 at 04:09:28 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Geez... (none)
          not only have there been recent examples of people being executed that were INNOCENT, but the whole capital sentencing system is skewed by issues like wealth and race.

          Please reread what I wrote:  Rational people can ethically accept the death penalty as just but reject capital punishment based on the historic and chronic inequity of its imposition--

          If you're going to get all bent out of shape and used CAPS to yell at me, at least do me the courtesy of not misrepresenting what I actually said.  I'm not defending capital punishment in the least.  Switch to decaff.

          -7.38, -6.62 Jesus + Fetus = SCOTUS (math by Jon Stewart)

          by lightiris on Fri Dec 09, 2005 at 06:36:01 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Sorry, that's a lame argument (none)
            To say that you are for the death penalty but do not want to see it carried out because of inequalty in the system is Kerryesque.  It will never be perfect, or without problems - you are either for it now, or against it now.

            "A CONSERVATIVE is a man who is too cowardly to fight and too fat to run." --Elbert Hubbard

            by Rico on Fri Dec 09, 2005 at 07:08:36 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Well, (none)
              you can label anyone's argument or position lame if you wish, but it doesn't delegitimize their position.  Large numbers of people--many posting on this site--have no problem in theory with the death penalty on a purely philosophical level, but have enormous problems with it in practice.  Your unwillingness to acknowledge that the issue can be argued on multiple levels is your shortcoming, not mine.  

              -7.38, -6.62 Jesus + Fetus = SCOTUS (math by Jon Stewart)

              by lightiris on Fri Dec 09, 2005 at 07:13:00 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

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