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View Diary: [ED] My detailed dissection of Robert F. Kennedy Jr 's misguided Op-Ed on Nantucket Wind in the NYT (390 comments)

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  •  A tidal installation ... (none)
    would look even worse than the windmills.  Those things are big and cost a fortune.

    Your alternates if you don't like windpower are a coal power plant, a nuke, or a LNG terminal.  Strikes me those would look a lot worse than windmills.  Unless you figure you'll stick an inland area with the bad stuff and still get the benefits.

    •  I have seen drawings of under sea installations (none)
      that by derfinition wouldn't "look" like much on the sea surgface.  But I am not talking about "looks" at all.  I am just being realistic about that water way and how busy it is.  What would "look" really ugly is a giant tanker entagled in the windmills not to mention what ever is on that tanker.  Sorry, but the realities of that particular part of the sea have to be considered.  

      I would prefer to see this kind of windmill field off the Outter Banks of North Carolina because they could actually provide a dual purpose serving as a reference for ships (those waters are a ship's graveyard)indicating that ships might be near the treacherous waters and providing lots of wind generated power.  In other words why not look at other areas where there is no sea traffic and there is a vast area to do it?

      •  That's just silly. (none)
        We better get rid of an oil rigs, coral reefs, rock outcrops and fishing nets as well, while we're at it, in case some tanker gets caught up in them.

        Seriously, any tanker that will get caught up in a wind farm is a tanker that was probably stopped from getting caught up in the coastline.

        •  I'd be really happy to get rid of oil rigs. (none)
          What I am saying is that there is a lot of acreage out in the ocean that cannot be navigated safely that could be used in this way and serve dual purposes.  Why is that so silly?  

          Furthermore, the area that I was talking about specifically off the coast of North Carolina is windy all the time - completely off limits to all boats small and large because of the numerous hazards.  That is why we have the Intra Costal Waterway by the way.  Otherwise you have to sail way east out into the middle of the Atlantic and then come back in.  It is a huge unnavigable shallow area.  What more could anyone want?

          What I think borders on silly is to consider putting up a permanent obstacle into an area that has ships traffic equivalent to the I10 at rush hour in LA.  Why not install these things where no one goes?

          •  Any boats that can't avoid 500 sq feet of ocean... (none)
            ...have no business being on the water.
            •  You seem to have a problem with (none)
              the idea of trying to do something that costs in the hundreds of millions of dollars in the first place within the confines of the reality-based world.  By the way, your aggressive defense of this plan is ironic since I am in no way taking an absolute stance against it.  I am only posing questions about it that a reasonable person has both land and water-base existences would pose.  Your absolutism about boats having "no business being on the water" if they can't avoid it is rather arrogant and unfair.  Shit happens on the water and the first Nor'easter that comes around and catches the boating community by surprize may mean the death of the wind mills.  It will be ironic then because the first thing people will say is "that they had no business building the wind field in such a highly trafficed area", but no matter - if you insist on being right now then so be it.  Go right ahead and be an absolutist.  
            •  Oh Hey and By The Way... (none)
              I have spent the last four years watching a beautiful coral reef get blasted and filled over with land fill "for the betterment of the people on the land".  Thousands of years of coral development gone in four years.  Honestly, I am very concerned with the environmental impact of these structures on the sea bed.  I didn't bother going there because there isn't a single soul on this blog who has a fucking clue as to how dammaging we have been installing oil rigs, turbines or whatever.  The reason no one has a clue is that the sea is more mysterious than outter space at this point.  What I can tell you is that the fry population and the general fish population has taken a huge hit from both the land fill projects and the construction on the hills.  Have you ever been swimming through a dead coral reef?  I have.  It is perhaps the most depressing thing I have ever seen.  If you really want to know what I think in my absolutist moments it is this: keep you're damn "solutions" to human fuck ups on land where they live and give the fish a chance.
              •  Oh, how much you assume. (none)
                I grew up in Australia, and spent many summers on the largest coral reef the planet currently possesses, the Great Barrier Reef. I've seen the death of much of it, the rejuvenation of other parts of it, and heard many an environmentalist ASK for the sinking of old ships for use as artificial reefs, so that the sea beings that make use of such things could get a better foothold in an area.

                I also grew up with a father who sailed, so I know plenty about the hazards of obstacles in the water, but I'll tell you this - they'll always be there, whether they be driftnets, rock outcrops, reefs, sunk vessels, whales, other boats, oil rigs, pipelines, floating debris, or the results of backwash from landfill that idiots have thrown down to make their coastal property a little prettier.

                It's a big ocean. And throwing 25 steel poles down in 500 square feet of it isn't going to make a single bit of difference to it.

                On the other hand, closing down some gas-powered power plants just might lose a little pollution, be it air, land or sea-based pollution, so I'll take "minimal damage, longer term thinking" for $500, Alex.

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