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View Diary: "Evolution Teaches Nothing But Lies," And Other Dover Facts (303 comments)

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  •  Mel Gibson will defend California from Evolution (4.00)

    True. Christian. Patriot.  

    •  Ya know..... (4.00)
      I used to really like Mel Gibson.......but lately I find he is becoming a real pain in the ass on this Christian stuff.  Why is he turning into a wingnut?

      If the people lead, the leaders will follow.

      by Mz Kleen on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 06:10:28 PM PST

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    •  Is it me... (none)
      or does that splash picture make him look like Osama?
      •  Saddam, I'd say. (none)
        And notice that the front page warns about "a high profile liberal Jew, Warren Beatty".

        The anti-Semitism of the American right is resurfacing.

        •  That "Draft Mel" site (4.00)
          HAS to be a joke, right?!?!?

          PLEASE tell me it's a joke!!!!!!

        •  <b>Mel Gibson's anti-semitism?</b> (none)
          I've been to Mel's blog, well I think it is his blog, linked text.  He seems a bit out there.  There was a poem about a "rotten Jew" wanting to kill Jesus.  If it is really him, he must be as crazy as people say he is!
          •  I'm new to this...sorry.. (4.00)
            his blog is
          •  So weird (none)
            I'll admit, I'm not religious.  But what I do not get about anti-Semitic "Christians" who "blame the Jews for killing Jesus" is that, according to their own mythology - Jesus was born for the express purpose of being put to death in penance for the sins of the people.  The whole idea is that he would be killed, and that he would suffer.  That was his fate from the beginning.  He was meant to be killed by his own people, to be tortured and to suffer, to be tormented by those who did not understand his link to God, and through that suffering to bring enlightenment to people who couldn't see the nature of their god.  He had to die to bring them to "life everlasting," purified of sins as a result of what Jesus endured on the cross.  

            There'd be no Christianity if he was not put to death by crucifixion, no resurrection, no "sacrifice for our sins," no frickin point at all.  He'd be a philosopher, prophet, whatever, but not the resurrected embodiment of one-third of the holy trinity, essential to the concept of Christianity.

            Moreover, and this is troubling from a consistency standpoint - God (the big, "father god," with the capital G) knew all along that it would happen, intended for it to happen, and the execution of Jesus was both inevitable and necessary for God's plan.  How about free will in that equation?  Weren't the "Jews who killed Jesus" predestined to do exactly that, required to do it if God's plan was to be accomplished?  How do you hate the people who were a deity's pawns?  Moreover, how do you hate them for accomplishing your everlasting salvation by executing Jesus as God intended?

            The whole religion thing is obviously fraught with logical inconsistencies, but this bothers me most.  

            Can money pay for all the days I lived awake/ But half asleep?

            by milton333 on Wed Dec 21, 2005 at 08:10:25 AM PST

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            •  Ding ding, we have a winnah (none)
              It's best just to leave this shit alone as thinking about it too much will give you a headache and no amount of rational analysis will matter one whit to the flock.

              They want to hate Jews, they'll find a reason. Even better, from their perspective, if they can dress their hatred in religious finery...makes 'em feel holier and more righteous, don'cha know.

              /International treaties? We don't abide by no stinkin' international treaties./

              by sigmarthebad on Wed Dec 21, 2005 at 10:15:37 AM PST

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    •  Probably not (3.00)
      IIRC he is a Catholic and evolution is part of catholic teaching.  The Pope himself recently stated that ID is bogus and anathama.

      And no, I don't like the Pope or Mel.  Just want the 'facts' to be correct.

      Stephanie Herseth is a bigot.

      by NorCalJim on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 09:12:40 PM PST

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      •  Well, not quite (none)
        I'm not sure about Mel himself but his dad is, as I recall, a "sedavacantist", an apostate Catholic who believes that the Church itself left the true faith some while back (John XXIII's papacy is the usual point of departure but there are others proposed) and that therefore all the popes since that time are not legitimate.  Thus, so the story goes, the seat of the papacy is empty--hence, "sedavacantist".

        They're not a homogeneous group (e.g., as I said above, not all agree on which pope was the first illegitimate one).  Some sedevacantists refuse to abandon Latin liturgy; I remember that Mel's dad is one of these.  I'm a little torn about that one.  An incomprehensible liturgy benefits few but I can barely stand the "low church" Mass at my parish church with its hippy-dippy Haugen and Haas hymns and its guitar music.  I like to hear a bit of Latin from time to time.

        Ite missa est.

        Invisible airwaves crackle with life, bright antennae bristle with the energy

        by Ernest Tomlinson on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 09:54:32 PM PST

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        •  Deo Gratias. (none)

          "You have to accept whatever comes and the only important thing is that you meet it with courage and with the best you have to give." -- Eleanor Roosevelt

          by marylrgn on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 10:36:15 PM PST

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        •  Did you say (none)
          Häagen-Dazs hymns?! Sign me up!

          (Sorry. I enjoy guitar masses, too.)

          Nobody likes big government until they need something. -5.88, -6.82

          by Debby on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 11:11:29 PM PST

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        •  Latin Mass (none)
          My understanding is that the Vatican does not object to a Latin Mass per se.  In fact they have approved a Latin text for use.  But the approved version follows the new post-Vatican II liturgy.  What the right-wing Catholics want is a return to the old liturgy, which was purged of its exclusivist (read "anti-Semitic") language.  

          For example, the old liturgy reads "His blood will be shed for you and for many".  The new liturgy is "His blood will be shed for you and for all men."  

        •  Pre-vatican II (none)
          The crucial modern papal statement on evolution is the Encyclical Humani Generus issued by Pope Pius XII in 1950, a decade or more before Vatican II
        •  That's interesting (none)
          I don't care for the informality of the newer format.  I like the serenity of the formal and it's dignity.  We have a latin rite parish nearby and have gone a couple of times. It's a strange experience.  The people are a bit odd looking, severe and stern, as if they haven't enjoyed much of life.  And they dress oddly, too.  I kept expecting Rod Serling to mount the altar platform and announce that we had entered another dimension.

          Stephanie Herseth is a bigot.

          by NorCalJim on Wed Dec 21, 2005 at 10:01:25 AM PST

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      •  Are you sure about that? (none)

        PLAYBOY: Do you believe in Darwin's theory of evolution or that God created man in his image?

        GIBSON: The latter.

        PLAYBOY: So you can't accept that we descended from monkeys and apes?

        GIBSON: No, I think it's bullshit. If it isn't, why are they still around? How come apes aren't people yet? It's a nice theory, but I can't swallow it. There's a big credibility gap. The carbon dating thing that tells you how long something's been around, how accurate is that, really? I've got one of Darwin's books at home and some of that stuff is pretty damn funny. Some of his stuff is true, like that the giraffe has a long neck so it can reach the leaves. But I just don't think you can swallow the whole piece.

        •  So now we know that Playboy is (none)
          as ignorant of simple high school biology as Gibson is. I'd say they're in the wrong business.

          -6.88/-5.64 Attack, jihad, binLaden, bomb, airplane, Bush, Iran, Saddam, Allah akabar (Just giving the NSA some data to mine. You are what you eat. :)

          by John West on Wed Dec 21, 2005 at 02:47:56 AM PST

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        •  Thanks, Tex. I stand corrected. (none)
          I thought he was regulation Catholic not a heretic.  

          But was it really worth demeaning yourself with a 2 rating?   It was an innocent error.  Your two rating makes you look pretty small minded.

          Stephanie Herseth is a bigot.

          by NorCalJim on Wed Dec 21, 2005 at 09:55:12 AM PST

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          •  sorry (none)
            i was in an underly generous mood.  I think I had been accused of being a troll on another thread.  I have uprated you.  
            •  That was very kind of you. (none)
              I've noticed there are people going around low rating and troll rating people like it was some kind of calling or hobby or something.  I don't get it.  It kind of upsets the energy.  You might be entertained to look at the ratings given out by jqb and mcjoan.  Or maybe its just the way you get to be a front pager around here.

              If that happens again to you, feel free to put a note on my most recent message and I'll try to uprate it for you. It's just not right.

              Stephanie Herseth is a bigot.

              by NorCalJim on Wed Dec 21, 2005 at 05:20:37 PM PST

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        •  Its not JUST that we descended from monkeys (none)
          but also that lifeforms are constanly evolving to better meet their environments.

          A lot of Christians (trust me, I am from Oklahoma and live around waaaaay too many) think Darwin is a nutjob, but then don't discount intra-species evolution.  Its the intER-species evolution that is their hangup.  e.g. Monkey's didn't evolve into humans, but its possible for a wooly mammoth to evolve to an elephant.

          "Maybe you know something I don't know." -- G Dub (-4.38,-3.03)

          by don the tin foil on Wed Dec 21, 2005 at 10:29:41 AM PST

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