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View Diary: Bill Richardson-Colin Powell-Joe Biden Target of NSA Spying (203 comments)

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  •  ok that's what they've been saying (4.00)
    I think Randi Rhodes' been saying it at least. That we know it wasn't a TIME thing why they didn't get the warrants, because it's a rubber stamp and you can even get a retroactive rubber stamp. So he's probably been spying on his political opponents.

    Once you say the name John Bolton it's just kind of obvious.

    I re-did my website! See how pretty DailyGranola.com is now.

    by OrangeClouds115 on Tue Dec 27, 2005 at 12:11:13 AM PST

    •  This association of Bolton and the NSA wiretaps (3.95)
      with Bush's admission really adds a lot of context to Bolton's recess appointment.  Bush would rather have Bolton illegitimately placed in the UN than reveal the spying on Americans program.
    •  not quite (4.00)
      It's difficult to get half a billion warrants. It's about data sniffing/mining without always having a discrete set of known targets.

      Not to say that the Madsen article is incorrect, however. This too is right up their alley.

      -7.00,-7.74 No one can terrorize a whole nation, unless we are all his accomplices. -- Edward R Murrow

      by subtropolis on Tue Dec 27, 2005 at 12:26:09 AM PST

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      •  The proper way is to track bad guys overseas (4.00)
        first.

        Then when they contact an individual in the US, you get a warrant to track the US individual.

        You then get warrants to track the contacts of the US individual.

        You will eventually get a search tree full of warrants, some branches of which will bear fruit.

        You can also get warrants for possible bad guys in the US that foreign governments have tracked.  

        •  I think I'm going to be sick. (none)
          This has to be the most egregious abuse of governmental powers I have ever witnessed.

          And to think, these sons of bitches thought they could get away with this type of abuse.

          Damn straight Bolton knew, and so did the rest.

          This Adminstration is criminally liable for so much -- how do such corrupt men end up with so much power and technology at their disposal ? ? ?

      •  The Richardson phone tapping incident (4.00)
        cited by both Madsen and Richardson, suggests Bushies were doing warrantless NSA spying on private conversations between American political leaders and foreign diplomats,  which Bushies then tried to conceal/defend their illegal actions by dishonestly misrepresenting Richardson communications as conversations between potential terrorists.

        You may not realize it, but when you say things like your first two sentences:

        It's difficult to get half a billion warrants. It's about data sniffing/mining without always having a discrete set of known targets.

        you are just repeating Bush's lawyer's talking points. NSA has always been in the business of wholesale recording and sorting of all e-communications. And "data mining" is a Bush smoke screen. Data mining had nothing to do with what they did to Gov Bill Richardson, and probably most Dem (and Repug) polititicians.

        The Bush crime machine had their operatives (like GOP consiglieri and on-again-off-again Frist aid  Manny Miranda) hack into the Dem Senate email system and their private servers and steal confidential Dem communications on legislative matters at least throughout 2003, and they have no ethical compunctions about using the enormous tools of the NSA to do the same kinds political spying even more effectively, and with fewer checks and balances and less oversight control on their secret actions.  

        •  i realise JUST what i'm saying (4.00)
          Perhaps you don't realise that there are two seperate issues involved here.

          The revelations from NYT last week concern something completely different than the Bolton intercepts. Rather, it was about NSA's decades-old program of "wholesale recording and sorting of all e-communications." The difference now is that the president himself has admitted that he signed off on them monitoring domestic communications in the process, and without any judicial oversight. They are playing fast & loose with the law (no surprise there) and how it can be interpreted in light of technologies which were not feasible when it was written. The point they make about warrants is reasonable given that this technology is allowed to be used in this fashion.

          I am in no way condoning how the NSA was used. I am suggesting that, were it to be allowed, warrants mean shit. Obviously, it's good that this has come to light, and now the wonderful legislators can hash out some up-to-date rules. Like, forbid the technology to be used, or allow it, with proper oversight. Pick one.

          And yes, data mining is an important point here. Rather, it is the point.

          Now, the business about Bolton, in my view, reeks to high heaven and the bastard should be thrown in prison. But it appears to be a seperate issue (and i'm sure you are as unsurprised as i am that this admin is involved in yet more dubious activities). Don't get me wrong – with the NYT info come out, it's great to see that the Bolton intercepts have come back to the fore. It was tragic that all of that was so quickly swept under the rug (National Security, and all that).

          -7.00,-7.74 No one can terrorize a whole nation, unless we are all his accomplices. -- Edward R Murrow

          by subtropolis on Tue Dec 27, 2005 at 08:58:59 AM PST

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          •  Sorry (none)
            That came out the wrong way. I should have phrased it differently, and then proofed it better before posting it.

            What I was trying to say was, yes there have been continuous, incremental improvements in NSA sifting, sorting, date integrating and filing algorithms/programs and capacities since the 1970's, but these are enhancements in degree,  in no way constitute valid justification/excuses or a sufficient defense for violation of the FISA Law, as Bush lawyers are trying to foist upon to defend his actions.

            It is important to remember that it is NSA insiders, and the FISA Court secret judges, all quite familiar with the ins and outs of the NSA "data-mining" technology, who are blowing the whistle on the Bushies as over-stepping the laws  here.

            •  yes, i agree (none)
              I just wanted to clarify that, in my opinion, we're dealing with 2 seperate things here with the NSA. One is the apparent admission by Junior that they've been monitoring domestic communications. The other is the suggestion that the admin (or at least Bolton) broke the law by spying on Richardson (and probably others).

              I'd love to see Bolton do the perp walk.

              -7.00,-7.74 No one can terrorize a whole nation, unless we are all his accomplices. -- Edward R Murrow

              by subtropolis on Wed Dec 28, 2005 at 05:59:09 AM PST

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