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View Diary: The Fighting Dem phenomenon spreads (224 comments)

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  •  Good one! (3.25)
    This is pure DLC crap. What did they do in the service? Does it matter? What are their views and other life experiences? This place seems to have gone nuts...
    •  I don't expect (3.66)
      everyone to understand the level of commitment and sacrifice that our veterans make for our country.

      Just note -- this site wouldn't exist had I not served.

      •  Hardly the point. (4.00)
        Point being, what specifically qualifeies them to be in Congress, or anything else for that matter. Not every vet is going to be a good electrician, or novelist. Or elected official. Come on.
      •  And I don't expect ... (none)
        The damnable military to MAKE these sacrifices for me. Fuck em.
      •  My father was a fireman (none)
        He was hospitalized twice due to smoke inhalation.  He saved people's lives.  His friend died in a fire where my father was also injured.  My friend's brother was a policeman who was shot and killed in the line of duty.

        There are many ways that people make sacrifices for others.  People join the military for all sorts of reasons.  Some for a job, some to serve, some because they think it would be cool.

        People in the military are fundamentally the same as people who never join the military.

        I have a friend who is in the Reserve.  He's 47 and he was called up to Iraq for his second tour.  He is not enthusiastic about serving, but he has no choice.

        I respect those who put their lives on the line for their fellow citizens, whether they're militaryt, policeman, fireman, Coast Guard, whatever.

        Visit Satiric Mutt -- my contribution to the written cholesterol now clogging the arteries of the Internet.

        by Bob Johnson on Wed Dec 28, 2005 at 11:13:01 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  I'd love to see fire fighters and cops run, too! (none)

          "We must all hang together or assuredly we will all hang separately." - Ben Franklin

          by RandyMI on Wed Dec 28, 2005 at 11:16:49 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Or to my point elsewhere in the thread... (none)
            The DLC also suggests that we need to talk more about religion "from the heart."  (Witness Hillary Clinton's recent claptrap about praying daily.)

            Maybe we should run a s;late of "Praying Dems," too.

            What the fuck is wrong with running a slate of "People?"

            Visit Satiric Mutt -- my contribution to the written cholesterol now clogging the arteries of the Internet.

            by Bob Johnson on Wed Dec 28, 2005 at 11:20:03 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Ok (1.66)
              Why don't we just run a "God-is-dead-I-hate-the-military" candidate and see how well he/she does.

              "We must all hang together or assuredly we will all hang separately." - Ben Franklin

              by RandyMI on Wed Dec 28, 2005 at 11:21:13 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

            •  But they are just people (none)
              Especially the reservists.  They come from all walks of life.

              "Let him that would move the world first move himself." --Socrates

              by joanneleon on Wed Dec 28, 2005 at 11:33:24 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Hey, I have no problem with them running. (none)
                I have consistently made two points:

                1. I don't think it is healthy to rah-rah military or ex-military candidates as "special cases."  There are plenty of good people in Congress and running for Congress who have never been associated with the military.

                2. I don't think candidates should be given any kind of a pass just because they're military or ex-military.  But that seems ot be what is happening here.  It's worong, simplistic and will hurt the Party in the long run.  Candidates should survive on their merits, not on their service.

                Visit Satiric Mutt -- my contribution to the written cholesterol now clogging the arteries of the Internet.

                by Bob Johnson on Wed Dec 28, 2005 at 11:37:45 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  One could argue (none)
                  that their service is part of their merits.  Do they get no points for honorable military service?  How about bravery?  Leadership?

                  That would definitely count toward their merits for me.

                  "Let him that would move the world first move himself." --Socrates

                  by joanneleon on Wed Dec 28, 2005 at 11:46:59 AM PST

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                  •  So what? (none)
                    What about the guy who was an emergency room doctor in a county hospital?

                    How about a fireman or policeman or forest ranger?

                    Yeah, they all are measured by what they do in life, where they've committed themselves, what kinds of contributions they've made.

                    There are heroes all around us.  Many of them we never see.

                    Visit Satiric Mutt -- my contribution to the written cholesterol now clogging the arteries of the Internet.

                    by Bob Johnson on Wed Dec 28, 2005 at 11:55:04 AM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Mixed reaction but "so what?" isn't fair (none)
                      Except for the "so what?" part, I don't disagree.  

                      If you are downplaying their service by saying "so what?" I disagree with that, strongly.  I feel it is very unfair to the vets as a whole.

                      But I strongly agree with the fact that many others are heroes too, and many others have great things to contribute.

                      "Let him that would move the world first move himself." --Socrates

                      by joanneleon on Wed Dec 28, 2005 at 12:11:49 PM PST

                      [ Parent ]

        •  It's about understanding experience (none)
          "People in the military are fundamentally the same as people who never join the military."

          I just don't think that's true.  

          Of course other people outside the military can also make public sacrifice.  No one is arguing that such is not the case.  It doesn't need pointing out.

          I worked for Gwen Moore's Congressional race in Milwaukee, and a large reason she ran (successfully) on health care, housing, and education issues is because she had struggled through those things herself as a black woman in Milwaukee.  She raised children as a single mother, put herself through college, and later started a credit union for black residents "red-lined" out of home loans.  She lived it, and now she speaks with authority.

          Certainly, if Republicans had long claimed to be the party of fire fighting, yet every city in the country were burning down, then I bet we'd see more firefighters run.  Because they live fighting fires.

          But the country's most visible, violent, profound problem right now is the Iraq war.  Not only that, but it's really the issue Republicans used as bogus rhetorical cover to push a backdoor, radical angenda. Successfully.

          So yeah, when we feature Fighting Dems on the Majority Report, we ask them about their service.  Because right now Iraq, and our unilateral shoot-first foreign policy, is the problem.  And Fighting Dems have lived the problem.  A few Fighting Dems go a long way to shred bullshit Republican nonsense.

          In addition to that, they're also real people with families and education and talent and lives.  I suspect much of this FD opposition stems from the perception of soldiers as one-dimentional people.

          And no one is saying that this is a silver bullet; no one is saying we have to run a vet in every district.

          But there is a larger concept of service that vets live and stand for.  War or no war, I'd want vets representing people in Congress as Democrats.  We have a crisis of leadership with the Jean Schmidts and Tom Delays of the world.  Vets have lived that problem too.

      •  No Kos. No. (none)
        My Dad would have fought in WWII except he had bad feet and hearing - hence 4F.  He dedicated himself to producing the highest quality wool for soldier uniforms in the most efficient way.

        His hours were 24X7 at times.  Those times he did not see his wife or children.  Was he physically at risk?  Yes - maybe not to the degree our warriors are now.  I would put forth the following proposition to consider regarding service people:  Some men/women can take that stress and grow.  Some men/women may take that stress and appear to grow but dwindle back.  Some men/woman just plain cannot take that stress but have personal intelligence and commitment in other areas.  I would suggest that someone who is a veteran from the Iraq War would have thrived in corporate life with as much honesty and drive as those who never were in Iraq or Afghanistan.  

        I look at nurses in NICU, ICU, Coronary Care.  I look at firemen who are daily at risk.  I look at policemen too.  I see courage there, underappreciated courage.

        Being a Vet is a point to consider in evaluating the character of the candidate.  It does NOT mean automatic endorsement.

    •  And even when one does a good (none)
      job of exploring the issues, that doesn't mean he gets the "seal of approval." This whole thing is shaky. Too much knight on a white horse, not enough exploration of issues.

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