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View Diary: The Fighting Dem phenomenon spreads (224 comments)

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  •  Democratic Veterans (none)
    Yes, Democrats are often veterans.  Let's not jump up and down quite yet, though.
    I'm a disabled veteran myself.
    70% from gunshot wound (very serious, one year convalescence in hospitals); malaria; 39 years of PTSD.
    I came out against the Vietnam War in the summer of 1967, while sorting out what I'd seen v. what I'd been told.
    In some ways, I look back on that and wonder how I felt so confident, but I wrote a letter to my hometown paper and predicted we'd lose, that the North Vietnamese people were more motivated to fight and die for their own "freedom" and "self government" and that the South's political apparatus was as rotten as a twenty day corpse in the heat.
    But, I gotta say ... don't forget that the Navy Swift Boat Veterans are ALSO veterans of that same war.
    There are always plenty of apologists who will emerge when they don't get to "do war in a manner that will win."
    What does that mean?
    It means "bomb 'em back to the Stone Age" and "fire bomb Tokyo" methods that Curtis LeMay used during WW II.  Remember: LeMay was the man who was the nastiest of the nasty figure in Dr. Strangelove.  He wanted to blow North Vietnam off the map.  Burn it to the ground.  Destroy it and obliterate it. Turn it into a "parking lot" in modern terms.
    "Shock and Awe" for the entire country, not just Hanoi and Haiphong. Blow the Red River Dams and river dikes, and flood ALL of the North.
    Kill indiscriminately.
    These guys who bemoan we LOST Vietnam BECAUSE their hands were tied are full of crap.
    We blew the living crap out of every target of note in the North.  We killed probably 1,000,000 North Vietnamese and VC supporters.
    Jesus, God Almighty! What was left?
    The fact is, the kind of war Curtis Lemay envisioned for Vietnam wasn't palatable then, and it sure as shit wouldn't fly  now in the Global Electronic Village.
    So, best see just how these vets are.
    I made up my mind that when I was discharged, I'd never strut around, at age fifty, sixty, seventy or eighty, in my old uniform.
    It took me twenty some years to wear my "boonie hat" with relevant pins.
    I have friends who venerate the Flag like it was Jesus' shroud!
    They wear all their combat crap and uniforms even, and still starch and brasso and spit and polish ... and they're sixty years old now!  There are plenty of vets from every war who think that was the seminal moment of their lives.  They've not gone on to a more balanced understanding of foreign policy that does NOT rely, first and foremost, on military muscle.
    Screw that.
    I want to know that these Democratic candidates who are Iraq War Veterans are also mindful of the limits of military power in the 21st Century.
    I want to know that they won't turn into Duncan Hunters and want to militarize the Universe, and give the DOD any goddamned thing they want!
    The DOD is always over stocked with crap, and there is always a shortage of critical equipment.
    Will the U.S. Navy remain as large as it is now?
    What happens to Star Wars and Missile Defense Shield?
    To new nuclear weapons?
    Will the U.S. rebuild the Army and Marine Corps FIRST?
    Will these guys want to do it all ... maintain the Air Force and Navy at their strategic levels (ballistic missile submarines and B-2 bombers)?
    Will the B-1 Bomber get shitcanned?
    How about the Osprey?
    Will these guys know that Iraq was a serious mistake, or will they be the ones who claimed that we "didn't allow them to fight the war the way it needed to be fought."
    If Seymour Hersh is right, the use of airpower called in by Iraqis will be one of the transitional phases of this war, if we don't leave by the end of 2006.
    What about that?
    Do they favor some drawn out crap?
    Or, will they see the wisdom that Gen. William Odom, former NSA Director, has shown, in stating that we can and should and must withdraw by the end of 2006!
    If Democrats rely on veterans to tell THEM (US) how to deal with Iraq, we're in trouble.
    We need to tell Democrat veterans what the hell this party is about so far as Defense and Aggression.
    I would suggest that we need THINKING, Contemplative Veterans, who understand that this war was totally screwed up, and unnecessary from the start.
    If these men and women come in, rah-rahing about the war, and how it was justified, they're probably going to be a bunch of Southern Democrats who will vote with the GOP as often as not.
    I'm for veterans in Congress, but not a bunch of Duncan Hunter veterans.
    If a veteran has really seen war for what it is, and has realized that he or now, she, has killed people, and that it has changed them forever ... and particularly if they are haunted by some of those people they killed ... they'll know that modern precision guided war in a heavily urbanized population kills LOTS of innocent men, women and children.
    And they also need to know that we are not going to ever win a series of wars with Islam ...
    •  Thank you. (none)
      Well said.

      I'll be watching to see exactly what the "fighting Dems" are fighting for - and against.

      I don't want to see any "fighting Dems" basking in the glory of this war.  This war was a disaster, a crime perpetrated against both Iraq and the US.  Just as in Vietnam, while I do appreciate that many have made big sacrifices "for their country", to me that's not really a central issue.  As far as I'm concerned, we are not only on the wrong side in Iraq, we ARE the wrong side.

      Face it, in Iraq, we're the bad guys.  I'm very uncomfortable with a lot of proud chest-thumping based on what's been done there, no matter how well-motivated those who went there may have been.

      If "fighting Dems" come back and speak out against this war (and and other wars of aggression), they'll have my deepest respect and admiration.  But if they come back and just wrap themselves in the flag and use their Iraq war service as some badge of honor that supposedly qualifies them for public office - without speaking the truth about the criminality of the war itself - then they'll deserve the same contempt as Buscho and the Thugs.

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