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View Diary: British torture memos (150 comments)

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  •  The truth will out (none)
    Or so we hope and pray. It has in this case, but we all know this is the tip of the iceberg.

    It is amazing to me that people like Blair and Cheney can honestly think of themselves as the good guys and behave like this.

    But there is no question they do. And there is no question that a significant majority of both Americans and Brits are always going to see themselves, their leaders, their spies and their soldiers as the good guys, nomatter who they get into bed with. The same would be true anywhere.

    When neutral observers point out obvious facts, they are effictively silenced as partisans.

    The key to getting the truth out about how morally corruped the war on terror is to have people on the inside, who were actually involved, spill the beans. It takes courageous individuals, and an equally courageous press or, more likely these days, courageous bloggers.

    And yes, I do think Cheney sees himself as a good guy, but I also think for him the Terrorists are largely an excuse to do what he'd like to do anyway: flex some goddamn American Presidential muscle. Scare the piss out of everyone. Blair I think really did take enormous succor from the fact that Saddam was an evil tyrant. So how does he reconcile being in bed with the Uzbeks?

    Does Tony Blair really want to be on the side of falsehoods over truth? So far, yes, but one can always hope that sheer revulsion will cause him to come to his senses and stop doing needless, pointless harm just to show the US how tough and ruthless he can be. Does anyone seriously think actionable intel is coming out of this?

    The terrorists have managed to get these great Western Nations to harm themselves far more than any group of bombers have.

    •  I think you need to focus (none)
      on the torture that our government conducts, under the various agencies -- and this would include Mi6.

      While I do not think they have boiled anyone alive <yet, though there is always some asshole scientist willing to try something>, they have commited some heinous crimes, through torture...

      I truely hope someone is brave enough to stand up and speak, as you said, and brings this ostensibly legally protected scum to justice, finally.

    •  Blair's (im)moral maze (none)
      You are totally right we always want to see ourselves as the good guys whatever we do, but eventually our actions catch up with us. If any of us do something we feel or know to be wrong, however vague that feeling is, most people put it down to experience and say to themselves "I don't do that shit, for I'm a good person. It was a mistake and i won't repeat it".

      If the same thing happens the next month, and the one after, it is part of a pattern of behaviour. If it starts to happen daily, you have a problem: now it is not something that happens, it is something you do, something you are.

      Blair's problem is that if he admits one mistake, falsehood or aberation he has to admit a pattern. And remember, he's been in this mire depravity, torture and lies since the Clinton era of renditions, prior to 9/11.
      That does not and cannot sit well with a man who is highly religious: Blair wants to become a Catholic - presently high Anglican, Church of England - once out of Number 10, despite John Paul II's vociferous objection to the War in Iraq. What will he have to confess to his priest? I'd love to be a fly on that confession box, although it'd take some time to go through all his sins.

      Looking in the mirror is too painful for him. He needs to be confronted by his actions before he will admit ANYTHING. His vanity, arrogance and hubris allow no self-reflection or doubt. The denial of reality and consequences his actions is his aim, cracking down on civil liberties, free press and human rights his tool.

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