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View Diary: The DNC's record fundraising year (139 comments)

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  •  It's doesn't matter (3.00)
    Think about it! Do you really care about the fucking court cases? Come on, be honest. Who goes to jail and who doesn't go to jail is a side issue. I'm talking about the politics of it.

    You seem to think that the public is going to spend more than 30 seconds on this. I'm telling you, they won't. The minute they hear that members of both parties are implicated, the curtain comes slamming down on any efforts by Democrats to make hay out of this.

    This little legalized bribery game that's been going on in Washington taints everyone. It's a big reason why half the public doesn't bother to vote. People know the Republicans are a pack of lying phones, but guess what? That's what people think the Democrats are, too.

    And are they wrong? When was the last time the Democratic Party really tried to make a push for working Americans? Christ, in 2001 the Democrats gave the Liar in Chief the final push he needed to pass his tax cut for the rich. Democrats are too fucking scared to even raise the statutory minimum wage to anywhere near the de facto minimum.

    Who are the non-voters? Answer: They're the people who work two jobs to feed their families. The Democratic Party doesn't have shit to say to them. Abramoff? Come on, the Democrats took a third of the crony fund's money? You expect people to give us points for that?

    First you've got to get the facts, then you've got to face the facts.

    by cwilson on Tue Jan 03, 2006 at 05:03:21 PM PST

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    •  Get at least one fact straight (none)
      A raise in the minumum wage was recently voted on in the Senate...no Democrat voted against the measure, but it still failed 51-47.  I guess that's because the Democrats were "scared."  

      Go elsewhere to peddle your garbage...  

      •  The Dem proposal was a joke (none)
        It didn't even come close to the current de facto minimum wage. Who could ever get excited about it? Why should any working American give a rat's ass about some Democratic proposal to require their boss to pay her what she's already making?

        First you've got to get the facts, then you've got to face the facts.

        by cwilson on Tue Jan 03, 2006 at 05:17:33 PM PST

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        •  yeah, yeah (none)
          the parties are the same, yadda, yadda, yadda...

          anything to convince us that the Republicans aren't so bad...

          oh, and copy and paste as much as possible from your previous comments...real classy.

          •  You misinterpret (none)
            I think the Republicans are worse. But I think the Democratic Party, collectively speaking, is an organization of weak sisters who are scared of their own shadows.

            First you've got to get the facts, then you've got to face the facts.

            by cwilson on Tue Jan 03, 2006 at 05:27:12 PM PST

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          •  As for the C&P (none)
            I am doing that on a limited basis so I don't have to retype the whole argument. I think it's fair to refer people to the question I answered an hour or two ago.

            First you've got to get the facts, then you've got to face the facts.

            by cwilson on Tue Jan 03, 2006 at 05:55:25 PM PST

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    •  A Side issue? (none)
      Have you lost your sense of right and wrong, lawful and unlawful?
      You argue like a Repug- semantics red herrings,and nebulisms is rsponse to facts. Yesterday you were sure that Dems took money from Abr.. today you make another attempt at grouing the Dems with the Repugs in the Abr. scandle, now from a different angle, now claiming politics is superior to truth and law.
      •  Oh come off it (none)
        Yesterday's diary issue really WAS a side issue. You really have to quit being the mirror image of the Freeper and accusing anyone who gives you the bad news of being a troll and/or a secret agent of the devil.

        First you've got to get the facts, then you've got to face the facts.

        by cwilson on Tue Jan 03, 2006 at 05:20:06 PM PST

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    •  No, in answer to your last question; (4.00)
      But what I expect from you is to do what it takes to hold the traditional media's feet to whatever fire we can muster to stop repeating GOP talking points that are lies - and which you may well be repeating, however innocently (try Rapid Response Network for starters).

      What I expect from you and everyone else here is to help find, publicize and support Democratic candidates who have not been and will not be part of the problem and to shout from the mountain tops that getting indicted is way, way different than receiving donations from some groups that may or may not have had something to do with a crook's illegal activities.

      What I expect from you and everyone else is to stand up and take action to get disgusted voters to understand that this is exactly what the GOP and their corporate backers want - they want people just like them to stay home on Election Day because that is exactly what allows them to keep control of the system, so if they like getting screwed then by all means, stay home on Election Day.

      Democracy is a contact sport...

      by jsmagid on Tue Jan 03, 2006 at 05:21:27 PM PST

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      •  I don't have anything to say to non-voters (none)
        You tell me how to convince a non-voter to vote at all, much less vote Democrat. The Republicans don't want them to vote, so I can't use any of their issues even if I wanted to, which I don't. Democrats? This party hasn't collectively given a shit about the economically marginal working American. It doesn't understand their dreams, their fears, their hopes or their frustrations.

        The Democratic Party is frantically trying to hang onto its perks in Washington. It's busy doing everything it can to ignore the non-voter, who is actually its greatest potential source of strength. It's one of the craziest, most paradoxical situations I've ever seen.

        First you've got to get the facts, then you've got to face the facts.

        by cwilson on Tue Jan 03, 2006 at 05:30:54 PM PST

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        •  I guess you should head to Canada (none)
          then and leave us alone to wallow in our delusion that we can and will make a difference, including getting a goodly number of disenchanted voters back to the voting booth - which is exactly what Gov. Dean did in his campaign and is working to do in red, purple and blue precincts all across the country.

          Democracy is a contact sport...

          by jsmagid on Tue Jan 03, 2006 at 05:42:56 PM PST

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          •  Want some evidence? (none)
            Check the latest Gallup poll. Okay, okay. I know Gallup favors Republicans, and I know that CNN ought to be called GNN for Government News Network. Still, this one's got the ring of truth to it. But when asked to break down corruption by party, the 47% said the Republicans are corrupt and 44% said the Democrats are corrupt.

            Asked how many congressional Republicans are corrupt, 19 percent of respondents said "almost all" and 28 percent said "many." The response was similar when people were asked about corruption among Democrats: 17 percent said "almost all" and 27 percent said "many."

            Not exactly time to uncork the champagne about the Abramoff case, is it?

            First you've got to get the facts, then you've got to face the facts.

            by cwilson on Tue Jan 03, 2006 at 05:48:14 PM PST

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            •  Nobody (including me) said (none)
              there isn't lots of work to do nor that it isn't important to know where you stand when you stand up to fight, just to focus on making the toughest damn stand we can make.

              Democracy is a contact sport...

              by jsmagid on Tue Jan 03, 2006 at 05:55:11 PM PST

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              •  Well, the way I see it ... (none)
                ... the very worst thing anyone can do is bullshit themselves. Self-deception is really dangerous. I see all these comments at dKos to the effect that the Abramoff scandal is somehow going to lift the scales from people's eyes. Not hardly! The Democratic Party hasn't even begun to start to do what it needs to do. Depending on this or that scandal is totally the wrong way to go. I'm telling you, it's not going to work. The public is inured to this shit.

                First you've got to get the facts, then you've got to face the facts.

                by cwilson on Tue Jan 03, 2006 at 05:59:02 PM PST

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            •  Abramoff is a CASE, Not an Issue. (none)
              The legal process is immune to spin and messaging.

              It's perfectly sensible to celebrate such a significant development as REPUBLICAN officeholders going to JAIL. It's the most foolproof way we have of getting Republicans out of office!

              We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy....--ML King, "Beyond Vietnam"

              by Gooserock on Tue Jan 03, 2006 at 07:41:20 PM PST

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      •  By the way ... (none)
        jsmagid, that was an excellent comment. And now that I've scraped myself off the ceiling let me tell you that I have pledged $500 to James Webb, a Virginia Democrat who is considering a run for George Allen's senate seat. I disagree with Webb's support for the don't ask/don't tell regime, which I think is stupid and unfair, but I think he gets it about where the Democratic Party has to go.

        First you've got to get the facts, then you've got to face the facts.

        by cwilson on Tue Jan 03, 2006 at 05:38:13 PM PST

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        •  Uh, um, thanks. (none)
          and I take back my Canada comment a couple of comments up...

          Democracy is a contact sport...

          by jsmagid on Tue Jan 03, 2006 at 05:48:03 PM PST

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          •  I don't blame you (none)
            This is pretty discouraging stuff. But I do think there's a way out. The Democrats need to make a dramatic break with the Washington, D.C. culture of corruption, and they need to rededicate the party to put the interests of working Americans at the very front and center of what the party is about.

            First you've got to get the facts, then you've got to face the facts.

            by cwilson on Tue Jan 03, 2006 at 05:53:28 PM PST

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            •  Now that I can wholeheartedly agree with. (none)
              And I think Gov. Dean is about as good a guy (or gal) as we could hope for to be DNC chair and lead the charge - with DFA and PDA as his shock troops.

              Democracy is a contact sport...

              by jsmagid on Tue Jan 03, 2006 at 05:58:39 PM PST

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