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View Diary: Alito lacks support (411 comments)

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  •  And I never hid my (none)
    preference for conservative judges.  Policy matters are a different story.  But constitutional interpretation is not a political thing.  (Or at least shouldnt be).
    •  Constitutional interpretation (none)
      Are you a strict constructionist?

      Could you please point out the strict language in the Constitution which gives the President the ability to break the law?

      Also, could you please point out the strict language that negates Article I, Section 1 of our Constitution:

      Article I
      Section 1. All legislative powers herein granted shall be vested in a Congress of the United States, which shall consist of a Senate and House of Representatives.

      Point out the language that says any legislative powers are vested in the Presidency in contradiction to Article I, Section 1.

      "... the Republicans have fucked reality so hard they need a physics professor to straighten them out." -- hamletta

      by manyoso on Wed Jan 04, 2006 at 01:18:54 PM PST

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      •  Did I ever espouse that view? (none)
        Congratulations on defeating another dangeorus strawman.

        If you want to talk about interpretation, let's.  Executive branch interprets laws all the time.  That's what agencies are for.  They promulgate rules and interpret laws.  Their interpretation can be challeneged in court, but are generally given great deference.  So, yes the executive does often have a say in what the laws mean in practice.

        •  I asked a question. (none)
          If it seems I'm arguing against things you haven't said, it is mostly because you've said very little about what you actually think.  So, I'm left to guess.  But, I did ASK.

          So, then you and I agree that the legislature is the sole branch vested by the constitution in CREATING the law.  That's a start.

          You are right that the executive branch interprets laws all the time.  We also agree on this.  However, this is not a function of them exercising any sort of constitutional power.  It is just the resultant consequence of the fact that the executive branch is required to follow the law.  They interpret it to the best of their ability in order to follow it.  And when their interpretation is found lacking they are required to follow the interpretation the courts have ruled the legislature intended.

          Alito is arguing with questions that presume the opposite.  It is his contention that the executive is vested with some legislative role and therefore the courts should consider the executive's interpretation of how the statutes were to be understood when the executive signed the bill.  There is NOTHING in our constitution which supports this reading.  NOTHING.

          Something you might not have thought about... another group that regularly interprets the law?  American citizens.  We do it all the time.  And just like you said, our interpretations can be challenged in court, and just like the executive, when our interpretations are found inadequate we are required to adjust them to the legislatures understanding as interpreted by the courts.

          "... the Republicans have fucked reality so hard they need a physics professor to straighten them out." -- hamletta

          by manyoso on Wed Jan 04, 2006 at 01:45:16 PM PST

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          •  But sometimes the Executive (none)
            interpretes the law to be unconstitutional and refuses to enforce it at all.  See history of Dickerson v. US.  So that too happens.  It is all part of the dance and balance of powers.

            And in some respects the Executive does create some laws (or technically rules that have force of law).  E.g., affirmative action was created via executive order.

            What happens if Executive and Legislature disagree with the meaning of already enacted statute.  For instance if the executive believes that the statute doesn't really add (but merely restates) the existing body of law and the legislature believes otherwise?  Or vice versa, if the Executive believes that the law is much broader than the legislature believes.  (We are not talking about statutes that are crisp and clear, but those where there are ambiguities).  How are those disagreements resolved?  And that is an interesting constitutional question, don't you think?  

            •  Prosecutorial discretion (none)
              Yes, the parts of the executive that make up the criminal justice system have the power of prosecutorial discretion.  In effect, by exercising this power they can grant an unofficial pardon to those who commit crimes and thereby skirt the law by simply refusing to exercise the law.

              However, this is a far cry from the ability to interpret law and it is also the height of abuse and injustice were the executive branch to use this power of prosecutorial discretion to skirt the law.  This practice, used in an illegitimate way, would fundamentally collapse the rule of law in our society.

              Is that what you are advocating?  That the executive should feel free to break the law knowing that the attorney general, the President's former counsel, is willing to grant unofficial clemency to the President?

              "... the Republicans have fucked reality so hard they need a physics professor to straighten them out." -- hamletta

              by manyoso on Wed Jan 04, 2006 at 02:11:20 PM PST

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        •  O shit (none)
          That's what agencies are for? ONLY because Congress said so. Tomorrow Congress says they aren;t and then what?

          More bullshit from you.

          The SCOTUS is extraordinary.

          by Armando on Wed Jan 04, 2006 at 01:49:43 PM PST

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          •  Agencies are just an example (none)
            Executive will always need to interpret laws, for example to decide if your actions constitute criminal activity under a given statute so that you can be charged.
            •  No (none)
              The Judiciary and a jury of my peers will decide that thank you.

              Sheesh, you are off your game today.

              The SCOTUS is extraordinary.

              by Armando on Wed Jan 04, 2006 at 01:59:54 PM PST

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              •  Before you get to that (none)
                the executive needs to interpret the law to decide whether to charge you.  Then the judiciary gets involved.  Or it doesn't because you may just cut a deal.  I didn't say that the Executive is a last word, but there is always room for them to interpret laws.
                •  Only if they do so in good faith... (none)
                  And notice that 'interpret' does not mean 'ignore'

                  "... the Republicans have fucked reality so hard they need a physics professor to straighten them out." -- hamletta

                  by manyoso on Wed Jan 04, 2006 at 03:55:47 PM PST

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                  •  Sheesh (none)
                    for the 50th time, I do not support the Executive ignoring laws.  Is that clear enough?!
                    •  So you condemn the NSA spying? (none)
                      Do you think it is an impeachable offense?

                      "... the Republicans have fucked reality so hard they need a physics professor to straighten them out." -- hamletta

                      by manyoso on Wed Jan 04, 2006 at 05:07:53 PM PST

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                      •  I do condemn NSA spying (none)
                        So far I have not heard any convincing argument as to why or how the President gets to single-handedly order warrantless searches.  If there is an argument I am open to hearing it, and reserve the right to change my opinion, but I doubt that such an argument exists.

                        I do not think that it is an impeachable offense.  Just because the President is acting potentially unconstitutionally (something that I believe is occuring, but has yet to be adjudicated) does not make the offense impeachable so long as he has good faith belief that his actions are indeed legal.  It seems that the Administration has that belief and in good faith.  That having been said, I think the program ought to stop.

                •  Then interpetation (none)
                  of the EXECUTIVE variety - to wit, in the exercise of the EXECUTIVE power is what you mean.

                  A lot different than what Administrative LAw Judges do.

                  Do you understand what you are talking about?

                  I get the feeling you do not.

                  The SCOTUS is extraordinary.

                  by Armando on Wed Jan 04, 2006 at 07:11:50 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

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