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View Diary: Another Bad Idea: Houston to tie teachers' pay to test scores (76 comments)

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  •  and I guess we totally ignore (none)
    the socio-economic factors of the students...  for example students in wealthier neighborhoods score higher than students in less-affluent areas...
    •  ahh (none)
      Did you read the article?

      The plan is divided into three sections, with as much as $1,000 in bonus pay each.

      The first would award bonuses to all teachers in schools rated acceptable or higher, based on scores on the state's main standardized test. The second ties pay to student improvement on a standardized test that compares performance to nationwide norms. In the third section, reading and math teachers whose students fare well compared with others in the district would be eligible for bonuses.

      So, the program metrics are: against the state sliding scale of acceptable+/not acceptable, against same student performance, and against district performance.

      I think that includes two forms of socio-economic factoring.

      What do you think?

      •  So in districts where the students are immigrants (none)
        who enroll in the school with little or no English-speaking ability, the teachers are to be punished?

        And in the districts in wealthy neighborhoods, where the schools already are better equipped, with sufficient textbooks, and students have a working knowledge of the English language, teachers are to be rewarded for their foresight in working for the haves, and not the have-nots?

        What an incentive for luring teachers to the schools that need them the most!

        Do you believe in predesination, too?

        •  improvement (none)
          wouldn't this all be relative to the starting point of the student population?  in my limited pov I would think that it would be easier to show large test improvement in an area where test scores are alady really low just b/c there is more room to grow...
        •  or worse (none)
          I have a relative that is trapped teaching special ed (as in the school system will never let her move out of that department.. ever).  She's totally screwed by this.

          Republicans: political terrorists

          by voltayre on Thu Jan 12, 2006 at 12:07:50 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  assume (none)
          Do you believe in predesination, too?
          Back off you fucker.

          the teachers are to be punished?
          First, you have a lack of reading ability.  This is merit pay on top of their collectively bargained pay.  So there is no "punishment".  There is only reward.  You aren't losing money from your agreed upon salary.  It isn't a fine.

          And in the districts in wealthy neighborhoods, where the schools already are better equipped, with sufficient textbooks, and students have a working knowledge of the English language, teachers are to be rewarded for their foresight in working for the haves, and not the have-nots?
          Since 2/3 of the bonus is dependent on same student performance metrics as well as same district performance your argument here is severely blunted.  No matter how wealthy the kids the teacher is rewarded for improving their performance.  This conforms to a theory that you can't ever be too good.  

          What an incentive for luring teachers to the schools that need them the most!
          No matter how badly equipped good teachers can still make a difference, and can still improve performance.  

          I think, also, you are making a gigantic leap by assuming I support this policy.

          So blow it out your ass.

          •  An humble suggestion (none)
            Save it for the Republicans, Dan; a little snark won't kill you.  There's no need to be that nasty.  

            No one likes armed missionaries. -- Robespierre.

            by Gator Keyfitz on Thu Jan 12, 2006 at 12:51:31 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  woah (none)
              I am not the one who accused me of being racist - code word style with the "pre-destination" swipe.

              I won't back down from that charge.  I am sick and tired of being called an orea around, of all places, dkos.

              •  As I've always used it (none)
                "Pre-destination" refers to the religious doctrine that individuals are fore-ordained for heaven or hell, a position which makes sense if you believe God is all-powerful and exists out of time.  It is associated with the Protestant Reformation, which differentiated it from the Catholic doctrine of free will to decide one's fate.  I think Judy meant that it was similar in that one was creating an outcome by rewarding the already successful, which may be a misreading of what you said, but, c'mon, "Blow it out your ass!"?  I don't think that was warranted.  

                I've never heard it used in a racial context, but I don't visit racist sites, so I could be wrong.

                I wasn't trying to single you out; I've just decided that I'd like to contribute to making the tone here less brutal.  Too much of the debate here is really course.  Snarkiness is overdone, too, but expressing rage, or righteous indignation with fellow posters just makes for ugly discussions.  Again, I don't think you are among the worst of the offenders, that's why I just made a suggestion.    

                No one likes armed missionaries. -- Robespierre.

                by Gator Keyfitz on Thu Jan 12, 2006 at 02:41:24 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  Ahh (none)
                  "Pre-destination" is the pre-eminent slavery/segrationist/discriminatory defense.

                  "Those" people are "pre-determined" to be "below" those who were "pre-determined" to be the "better" race.  

                  It was the pre-eminent justification for Western colonization of the "dark" continent.

                  •  I'm just not familiar with that use (none)
                    of the term, Dan.  I've never seen it used in any but the religious doctrine sense.  Maybe that's what Judy was saying, but I didn't get that impression.  Even so, one option might be to ask for clarification before getting angry.  Like I said, I'm not picking on you, in fact I generally value your comments on this thread and elsewhere.  I just hate to see communication between generally like-minded folks melt down, that's all, and also I hope you don't get fed up with this site and stop posting here.  Different viewpoints are the life-blood of this site.  

                       

                    No one likes armed missionaries. -- Robespierre.

                    by Gator Keyfitz on Thu Jan 12, 2006 at 05:46:49 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

            •  woah (none)
              I am not the one who accused me of being racist - code word style with the "pre-destination" swipe.

              I won't back down from that charge.  I am sick and tired of being called an oreo around, of all places, dkos.

      •  i think it addressed about 50% of the problem (none)
        but I still think that the issue is to complex to address through a performance based pay system.

        given the turblent lives of say children of poorer families (who have statisically higher rate of "home problems") versus the stability of a more affluent household its hard to say.

        For example: a kid does ok on the test one time; but the next does horribly...is it because of some social factor that would not be present in another neighbor.

        I honestly think that helps the district justify the program, but doesn't really solve the issue of the difference between a teachers ability to teach and a students ability to learn...

        but I will admit I'm not the biggest fan of performance based pay in general - i think it works in very few areas - usually the reality of an individuals authority and their domain of responsbility and what the perceived authority and domain of responsiblity is, are very different...

    •  i'm in houston (none)
      thanks for the heads up.....didn't hear about this.

      has this ever been done?  what were the results?

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