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View Diary: Tipping point near on global warming!!!! (145 comments)

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  •  Hope it's not too late. (4.00)
    Future generations will not look kindly on our mountaintop removal for a few year's worth of electricity, and changing our climate just so we can run TV sets and air conditioners.

    If you don't want it printed, don't let it happen.

    by EZ writer on Sat Jan 28, 2006 at 05:15:22 PM PST

    •  Too late (4.00)
      There is no more debate about this as far as I am concerned.  

      I am in the woods in northern Wisconsin and tonight it is raining.  It rained two other times this week.  Statistically, this should be the coldest week of the year.  

      People, we have been fed a line of bullshit.  It has rained in the northland every Januay since 1998.  This does not happen like this by accident.

      Wake up!  

      This is the mega-issue of mega-issues and dwarfs everything else.  When will we stop focusing on the bullshit of the Bush administration and focus on what really matters?

      Reduce fossil-fuel emissions now or the human race becomes a desperate struggle to survive in a hostile, unforgivng environment.

      Education? Teaching? NCLB? Read my book _Becoming Mr. Henry_

      by Mi Corazon on Sat Jan 28, 2006 at 06:41:25 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Also being rained on in northern Wisconsin... (4.00)
        ... and people are getting very weirded out by it.
        By far the most frequent comment you hear about the weather around here is "Do you think this is how it's going to be from now on?"

        Our local paper runs a story every week or two on some angle of how Wisconsin winter tourism has been shot to hell by the climate change.  Fake snow can only do so much...  Plus many more stories about people/trucks falling through the ice (trying to ice fish).

        I agree -- "there is no more debate."

      •  I never thought that I'd say that I miss the cold (4.00)
        Yeah. Our weather is being quite kind to the heating bill. Last winter was warm, too.
      •  I live in central New York (4.00)
        56 effin degrees today!!!! I wrote in another diary you really have to have some historical perspective to realize how alarming this is... I'm 44 and I can remember the bitter cold winters of my youth. I felt like things began to change in the early 8's.

        We are all fucked in so many ways it's really depressing to think about... That's why I'm drinking right now!!!!

        •  Manhattan (none)
          And we were out enjoying the 58 degree evening in Manhattan last night.  I wore a t-shirt, jeans and a windbreaker.  No hat, gloves or scarf.

          "We need a war to show 'em that we can do it whenever we say we need a war." -- Fischerspooner

          by bink on Sun Jan 29, 2006 at 06:06:11 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  It was 50 degrees in Vermont today. (4.00)
        And the expectation is that it will rain tomorrow or the next day. When I first came to Vermont (1986) there would be periods in the winter when the thermometer wouldn't go above zero for weeks. and you'd hit a few 30 below zero nights. That was the Northeast Kingdom. Now, in Burlington, (admittedly about 10-15 degrees warmer than the Northeast Kingdom) if the temperature goes below zero, it's unusual. And 30 degree below zero nights are just a memory. While the weather bounces around, it hasn't been really cold in years. I have clothes that I only wear when it goes below zero, and I haven't worn them in two years. The biota in the various ecology zones aren't going to be able to migrate fast enough (and sometimes the zones are islands surrounded by other ecology zones so they can't migrate), so many species of animals and plants will go extinct just from global warming alone. We may end up eating soylent green eventually. Well, my kid will. One day i told him, I won't experience all this but you will. He looked at me balefully and said, 'Thanks, Dad.'

        -7.25/-6.41 Service [to others] is the rent we pay for the space we occupy. -Rev. M. L. King, Jr.

        by sravaka on Sat Jan 28, 2006 at 08:12:28 PM PST

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        •  They can't move (none)
          These days, the biota are islands surrounded by parking lots.

          -- I share no man's opinions; I have my own. -Ivan Turgenev -6.75 -3.79

          by tergenev on Sat Jan 28, 2006 at 09:13:13 PM PST

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        •  So much for American (none)
          maple syrup.

          "I desire what is good. Therefore, everyone who does not agree with me is a traitor." King George III

          by ogre on Sat Jan 28, 2006 at 09:49:13 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Within perhaps (none)
            as little as a couple of generations, if weather trends continue, maples will likely die off and be replaced by things like oak. I believe Bill McKibben has written about this, perhaps in The End of Nature.

            Somehow, leaf-peeping for oak trees just doesn't do it for a money-making fall tourist season, you know?

            The degree to which you resist injustice is the degree to which you are free. -- Utah Phillips

            by Mnemosyne on Sun Jan 29, 2006 at 07:18:00 AM PST

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        •  I'm in Minnesota (none)
          and it was raining tonight. WTF?

          "The election's over. We won. It's all over but the counting, and we'll take care of the counting." Rep. Peter King (R-NY) at WH function, 2003

          by kathika on Sun Jan 29, 2006 at 12:14:46 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  Northeastern Weather Changes (none)
          Great post. My father went to Lyndon State College in the early 70s and his memories of Vermont always include the winter nights where it was -30 degrees and he had snow past the first story window of his home.

          I grew up in Connecticut (now in ATL) and it amazes me when I talk to friends in CT when they've told me that it's 62 degrees on an early January day. That's downright scary. Early January meant that my driveway was frozen solid and I was having snowball and iceball fights with the kids across the street, while neighbors were literally skiing down our street.

    •  I Do Believe... (4.00)
      ...that the most learned researchers in this field have come to the conclusion that we are past the point of no return.

      There appears to be a growing body of information about where to move/relocate for the best survival odds over the next 50 years or so.

      Inland river valleys is a top pick. Migrations out of coastal areas are a good idea. Mountainous areas of central Europe are considered the best areas. World population numbers must drop to about 25 percent of what they are. Famine will help with that.

      In the final analysis, global warming is a product of catastrophic overpopulation. Nothing more than that, really.

      It's okay to be a sheep, but not at the wheel. -- Cap'n Pluto

      by Pluto on Sat Jan 28, 2006 at 06:58:36 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  agreed (4.00)
        there's very little that could possibly be done...even if Europe and Canada reduce their emmissions the developing world won't.

        Unless there's a a). nuclear war, b.) massive volcanic eruption or c.) asteroid strike small enough to not kill everyone but big enough to shroud the Earth the planet will warm until it corrects itself and that correction will be violent.

        It's already too late.

        •  I hear than GW Bush is trying to help (none)
          especially with the a.} selection.

          He's doing a heckuva job. Between him, the Iranians and the perhaps the Chinese, we can have some pretty light shows {if you happen to be on Mars, that is}.


          Seriously, the balance of weather patterns cannot be corrected by making "other changes". It's much more complex than that.

          "Rovus Vulgaris Americanus" nasty soon-to-be-indicted co-conspirator -7.63, -9.59

          by shpilk on Sat Jan 28, 2006 at 09:51:01 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  Maybe. Maybe not. (none)
        Two good places to learn more:
        Union of Concerned Scientists
        California Climate Choices

        IMPEACH THEM NOW! It only takes One State.

        by arbortender on Sat Jan 28, 2006 at 08:02:06 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  wow (none)
          i went to climate and read this and now i'm really confused. that's real change, i mean not a token gesture at all -- coming from ahnold?! and this was signed in june which was way before the special elections made him run to the left. the guy is hard to figure out. shit, though, i mean, gray davis never did it. between this and the solar rebates ($10,000 vs. only $2k from the feds) -- can i possibly vote for a republican???
          i know every other policy has been totally abhorrant (education cuts!) to me, but at the end of the day the issue i care about most is the environment, and this is real leadership on that issue. i think i would take a lot of shit from a politician for a clean environment...


          "i was always dreaming of very powerful people, dictators and things like that." -- arnold schwarzenegger in "pumping iron"

          by hoodoo meat bucket on Sat Jan 28, 2006 at 09:07:01 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  If you dig that (none)
            you're going to really dig this.
            California Solar Initiative
            Money to make it happen.

            IMPEACH THEM NOW! It only takes One State.

            by arbortender on Sun Jan 29, 2006 at 12:25:03 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  yes, i was aware of the solar initiative (none)
              and a while back when arnold defied the religious freaks and did that stem cell initiative (i think the dollar amount was close to the solar program?) i warmed up to him slightly until the special election bullshit. but now i'm really fucking confused on if i should vote for him. i'm leaning towards yes because of how really fucking revolutionary these actions are -- i'd be a hypocrite not to support a politician -- any politician -- who actually stepped up and delivered a policy to get us to 80% below 1990 levels by 2050, right?

              "i was always dreaming of very powerful people, dictators and things like that." -- arnold schwarzenegger in "pumping iron"

              by hoodoo meat bucket on Sun Jan 29, 2006 at 12:33:45 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

          •  Ahnold (none)
            I actually think if Arnold had a few terms of being in a state senate he would have been a hell of a governor.  As it is, his lack of government experience shows pretty bad.  Then again, I think if he'd had that experience he might have switched sides and been a conservative democrat, or at least toned down to a less conservative republican.

            Personally I'd rather have Arnold up there, than a full blood neo-con.  I don't agree with Arnolds views or agenda, but he can be dealt with as a republican.  Unlike Bush and his Neo-con handlers who should simply be locked up for crimes against humanity.

      •  Pluto (none)
        Yet another good reason to migrate to (soon to be) sunny Canada :-)

        Actually, seriously.

        Come see TV from the reality-based community at

        by MarkInSanFran on Sat Jan 28, 2006 at 08:45:46 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Heh. (none)
          I've considered Canada, but I'm having a hard time immigrating there, and dumping my U.S. passport is my first priority.

          It's okay to be a sheep, but not at the wheel. -- Cap'n Pluto

          by Pluto on Sat Jan 28, 2006 at 09:26:59 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  asdf (none)
          It was 4 degrees (Celsius) in Toronto today, and yesterday, and the day before that.

          We haven't had snow ALL winter.

          Oh wait it was -6 (Celsius) one day last week I think.... carry on nothing to see here   

      •  Actually, in Europe (none)
        predictions I have seen indicate that is going to get colder - because of the changes to the Gulf Stream and other factors North and Western EU will suffer from reduced moderating effects that the ocean normally would supply.

        They are trending toward having record rain as well as lower temperatures - and yes, swings to the other extremes in the summer - again a result of the lack of the moderating influences of ocean currents.

        "Rovus Vulgaris Americanus" nasty soon-to-be-indicted co-conspirator -7.63, -9.59

        by shpilk on Sat Jan 28, 2006 at 09:48:36 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  Ironic, (none)
      though, is it not? The reason we run air conditioners is to change our climate.

      Al Qeada is a faith-based initiative.

      by drewfromct on Sat Jan 28, 2006 at 06:58:43 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  All these papers and pundits (none)
      try to regain some cred and curry favor with the greenish left by publishing stuff like this, which is considered "safe". Look at e.g. the disgraced Tom Friedman who tried to make amends for his disastrous support of the Iraq invasion with a series on ecology topics.

      It doesn't work. I mean, sure, we have to ring the alarm bells about this stuff, and a lot louder.

      But the way to actually do something about this is to venture out into the less safe waters and bring down the Republican Hegemony that is advocating continued rape and pillage.

      I'm not going to let anyone try to make amends by stating the obvious.

      <div style="display:inline;color:#CCC">The dark at the end of the tunnel is an oncoming age.</div>

      by peeder on Sat Jan 28, 2006 at 07:08:02 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

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