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View Diary: Sunday Talk - "Fake 'Da Nation" (185 comments)

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  •  It wasn't twice (none)
    it was more like three or four times. And I'm not even sure he ever actually correctly said "vice president," I think it might have been schieffer who was the only one to get it correct.

    You can think what you want, I'm telling you my impression, it was distracting and ridiculous.

    I'm not denying that Dean is great for the party, but that doesn't mean a little constructive criticism isn't warranted. The man isn't great in interviews, he needs to do more prep.

    And calling for Cheney to step down is NOT a substitute for being able to talk about what the Democrats ARE doing. He spend the entire time talking about what we SHOULD be doing. It's passive, and it allow the republicans to continue to say that we have no agenda and aren't getting anything done. We all know it's a bunch of lies, but I just don't understand why the Dem leadership has such a hard time articulating it.

    All you've done is argue how great Dean is for calling on the vice president to step down. You haven't even bothered to deal with the other points I made.

    You're right, Dean is great for the party. But measuring success against other Dems who have failed miserable at this (by making staements like "he's the best thing to happen to this party") is not good enough.

    •  "The first VP since Aaron Burr"... (none)
      to commit such an act in wartime.  I KNOW that he got "VP" correct there (Burr never was prez), and I recall him getting it correct a couple of other times.  Both of us would have to see the transcript to be sure.

      Whether Dean correctly identified Cheney's office 2 times out of 5 or 3 times out of 5 is one of the silliest points I've ever seen on this board.  Yes, Dean screwed up twice, and he may've even screwed up 3 times.  WHO CARES?

      I can think of few other issues than Cheney's fitness for office that are more important right now.  We've been getting the ever-loving s**t kicked out of us on "national security" the last 2 election cycles, and Rove's already made it clear that he plans of using the same playbook this cycle.  The VP, who has exercised extraordinary powers in that field in this WH, committed treason if he told Scooter to out Plame.  As Dean CLEARLY said (he didn't flub that line), Plame was outed for purely political reasons.  If the trail leads back to Cheney, BushCo's credibility on their flagship issue has taken a mortal hit.

      It's also a serious policy issue as well.  Plame was outed to silence others as much as she was outed to punish Wilson.  Of the many scary things about this WH, its repeated silencing of dissent is its scariest.

      So Dean didn't defend HRC strongly enough for her tastes.  I've always gotten the impression that HRC is a big girl who is more than capable enough of defending herself.  I also wonder whether the most visible "angry" male Dem should be the one who vouching for the emotional stability of the most visible "angry" female Dem.

      To borrow a pet term of this site's, "framing" is a key job of any party chair.  Dean did an excellent job of framing today.

      Some men see things as they are and ask why. I see things that never were and ask why not?

      by RFK Lives on Sun Feb 12, 2006 at 01:34:33 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Silly? (none)
        Fine if you think the point is silly, but I'm telling you how it looked to me.

        And yes, framing is important, care take a guess at how that interaction will get framed over and over and over again by the Republicans as they now have plenty of tape of Dean not being able to keep his message straight about who is or isn't responsible for the Plame leak?

        You can call it a silly point if you want, but we've been getting our asses kicked by "silly points" over and over again. We've got to stop helping them out, and we've got to be honest about how the message comes across. You can sit here on DKos rationalizing why his performance was fine, but the Republicans have tape of him looking and sounding like a fool.

        •  There are 5 years of... (none)
          tapes of W sounding like a fool in office--plus another year's worth from the 2000 campaign.  Hell, there's an entire calendar containing 365 "Bushisms"--I bought one for my daughter for Xmas.  After the GOP attacks Dean for a couple of slips of the tongue, perhaps Cheney can then attack the Dems for not being sufficiently conscious of safe quail hunting techniques.

          Some men see things as they are and ask why. I see things that never were and ask why not?

          by RFK Lives on Sun Feb 12, 2006 at 03:27:32 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  See (none)
            that's my point. The answer to mis-steps cannot be to point to other's mis-steps. Do you realize the standard you just set? We have to set the bar high, not low, if we expect to win elections.

            W gets away with sounding like an idiot because  he has an entire empire of spinmasters ready and waiting to convince the public that up is down and white is black. Howard Dean has no such luxury.

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