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View Diary: What Is Different About This Time (370 comments)

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  •  WTF are you talking about Pinochets (none)
    of the world. You choose democracy? You made a statement in your diary that promoted the fact that you are anti-communist, as if that is a badge of honor or that we should take you more seriously because of it. I challenged you because my generation of liberals had the same feeling about your ilk that you have against the current administration. Anyone who dared to speak of friendly relations with the Soviet Union was ostracized and accused of being a communist. Many were sent to jail, many lost their jobs, their livelihood and more. Yet you write in a liberal blog and chastise any idea that challenges yours about communism. I've read comments of yours that calls for Americans to fight against the very thing you are arguing with me about. In other words, if you are anti-Bush, you are ok to be considered a liberal, but don't speak on this blog about anything to the left of what your position is. Is that what it's about? I only asked you a question at first, now I get the feeling you perceive my question was that I promoted communism. I never promoted communism, I promote tolerance, including tolerance of those who are communists. That's what got many of my people thrown in jail.
    •  My ilk? (none)
      First of all, fuck you for tarring me with the anti-communist persecution your family suffered. I repeat, fuck you.

      You see MY family was and is persecuted by Communists but I don't hold YOU resaponsible for it.

      You wrote "Do you know what was worse to the average Russian, living under the Tsar or living under Nikita Khrushchev? Or doesn't that answer matter to an anti-communist as long as we get out of the relationship what is good for us?"

      Replace Batista or Pinochet or Franco for the Tsar and replace Castro or Allende for the Soviets and you might start to understand my point.

      I rail against the Fascists who use Communism as their excuse for authoritarianism.

      I rail against the Communists who use Fascism as their excuse for Totalitarianism.

      I repeat, I reject your choice. I resent your smear and I tell you to go to hell with your bullshit.

       

      The SCOTUS is extraordinary.

      by Armando on Sun Feb 12, 2006 at 08:03:16 PM PST

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      •  Is that all you can do (none)
        is show your intolerance of someone who challenges you? I respect your views, as I have read much of what you have written. Yet, you choose to lose your cool because someone happens to believe in something you are not tolerant of. Why do I, an old man cause someone of your obvious intelligence to argue in such a way? As I said, you write in a liberal blog. You should not be surprised that many readers maybe more liberal than what you expect. Many are my age and lived in a different generation. You preach a liberal and tolerant message in all your other blogs, but this one topic causes you to betray your intelligence by lashing out at someone who is too old to fight. Is that what your obvious education taught you. Is that what you expect me to use to argue against your tirade. You disappoint. This was not about anti-communism, this was about tolerance. You don't seem to have much if you are challenged. If you are insulted by the word ilk, I apologize.
        •  i responded substantively (none)
          and emotionally to your slur.

          your refusal to retract it tells me about you.

          you didn't challenge me. you insulted me.

          you didn't make an argument.

          you hurled a smear.

          reread my diary on why i am angry.

          you do not address MY argument at all.

          is that your style?

          The SCOTUS is extraordinary.

          by Armando on Sun Feb 12, 2006 at 08:29:36 PM PST

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          •  There was no slur (none)
            nor was there an insult, unless you are that thin skinned that you have to debate like a little child. I looked over your diaries and comments this morning with my wife. We were both struck by how someone who is obviously a leader of this website illustrates in his writing a temper which betrays his philosophy of liberalism. I did not equate you with anyone. What I did expose is you have intolerance of others' opinions. You react like a teenager who is ready to punch anyone out who dares to cross your street. You were itching for a fight from the very first sentence of your post. Be careful what you wish for. Going after me is superfluous to the issue you tried to project. I am no one but an old man who reads and writes. I do not have any ambition to be a famous and influential writer. You definitely do. I was waiting for you to tell me to meet you on the street so you could kick my butt. What is sad to me is the anger you reflect in your generation. I have long dismissed any hope your generation would show any respect toward older people. It is illustrated throughout your writings as it is illustrated on a vast number of comments on many websites. Sorry to make you so defensive.
            •  Ah like a republican (none)
              You smear with the "anger" meme.

              That you are older does not mean ypou get a free pass for your slurs.

              This is what you wrote in this thread to me;

              Joseph McCarthey and his red scare against liberals and communists in the 40s and 50s? Is that how anti-communist you are? Do you go as far as destroying the lives of innocent people just because they believe in socialism over capitalism? Please elaborate what your belief of communism as practiced by Stalin and Castro is vs. actual the actual Marxist dialectic.

              . . . I only know people who claim to be heroic because they wear the anti-communist label are no better than the assholes who hounded my family during the early 50s. Those of my family who were persecuted for their left wing beliefs in the 40s and 50s were not evil, and they did not believe in dictatorships either.

              . . . Do you know what was worse to the average Russian, living under the Tsar or living under Nikita Khrushchev? Or doesn't that answer matter to an anti-communist as long as we get out of the relationship what is good for us?

              . . .WTF are you talking about Pinochets                                 of the world. You choose democracy? You made a statement in your diary that promoted the fact that you are anti-communist, as if that is a badge of honor or that we should take you more seriously because of it. I challenged you because my generation of liberals had the same feeling about your ilk that you have against the current administration.

              Sorry sir, but there was a slur in every comment, a McCarthyite tactic in every phrase.

              Your technique of challenging whether I supported McCarthyism was offensive in the extreme.

              It is exactly what you criticize, but against those of us who abhor Communism.

              As for your armschair psychoanalysis, it is worthy of Bill Frist.

              Truly the sins of the Republicans have been demonstrated by you in this thread.

              The SCOTUS is extraordinary.

              by Armando on Mon Feb 13, 2006 at 08:28:13 AM PST

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              •  I did not have a tactic (none)
                you just react as if everyone not agreeing with you is an enemy. You wish to make it a slur, that is something I cannot control. I asked questions of you. I was not even trying to incite anything in you. If you wish to lump me in with Republicans, that's ok. I am not ashamed of myself for having republican friends, or even agreeing with republicans from time to time. I am not the one insulted when someone disagrees with me. I am also not the one who has the most influence on the bloggers of this website, you are. I made the point that anti-communists went along with all the frenzy that caused many to suffer. I asked you if you agreed and went so far as agree to destroying lives. Obviously you were not around back then. My question asked you if you agreed with those who persecuted communists. You could have just said no. But you read into the question that I was accusing you of being a McCarthyite. Now you are projecting back at me by insinuating I am deploying a republican trick against you. I am just trying to have you look at your own temperment as a writer because you have a great deal to offer. Your writing is important. Your anger and defensiveness detracts from that importance.
        •  Don't waste time arguing with Armando (none)
          He has some good points sometimes, but when he disagrees he just goes into full-bore attack mode and refuses to debate intelligently or reasonably.  

          In Britain they admit to having royalty. In the United States we pretend we don't have any, and then we elect them president.

          by Asak on Mon Feb 13, 2006 at 02:21:23 AM PST

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          •  He equated me with McCarthy (none)
            You embrace HIS disciourse?

            The intolerance is all on your side of this one.

            Asak, you have no room to talk. As intolerant as they comde you are.

            The SCOTUS is extraordinary.

            by Armando on Mon Feb 13, 2006 at 05:15:08 AM PST

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          •  Yes, he does.... (none)
            "He has some good points sometimes, but when he disagrees he just goes into full-bore attack mode and refuses to debate intelligently or reasonably."

            And does that trait remind you of anyone?

            Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men? Well, come on, doesn't anybody know!?!?

            by Erik the Red on Mon Feb 13, 2006 at 08:59:56 AM PST

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      •  Be an adult (none)
        Accept their challenge and explain yourself or go to the kids' table. Have some honor for once.

        A small group of thoughtful people could change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

        by Tux on Mon Feb 13, 2006 at 03:37:40 AM PST

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    •  Come on! (none)
      Being anti communist is not the equivalent of McCarthyism.  That's the bullshit that the right wing would have you swallow, that you'red either a wingnut or a commie.  Communism is as anti human as Bush "ownership capitalism".  Both are religios propositions that assume things about the human condition that DO NOT obtain, and never have.  Both require centralized power and planning, state control of the economy, for really the same actual purposes, and require a fervent belief in the Leader.
        It's very sad and unjust that relatives have been persecuted or blacklisted because of beliefs, but it's just as sad that reactions to that include ignoring the evil of the ideas, the harm to the people, the spirit-deadening sequelae to the Russion Communist experiment.

      Patriotism may be the last refuge of scoundrels, but religion is assuredly the first.

      by StrayCat on Mon Feb 13, 2006 at 12:10:06 PM PST

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