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View Diary: From a surgeon: What Cheney's victim may be facing (280 comments)

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  •  Diagnosis (1.66)
    The diary is a list, a long one, of possible injuries, their extent, and their treatment. Only speculating--but how is that not diagnosis? And prognosis?

    You didn't do it.

    by Earl on Mon Feb 13, 2006 at 01:18:36 PM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  well (4.00)
      This is more accurately a prognosis, if anything. We all know the diagnosis: a shotgun. (Ignoring the issue of common vs. technical definitions of words.. I'm not trying to play a semantic game)

      As you say the post is fully speculative in nature. I simply don't understand the problem here. A dude gets popped with a shotgun, and this diary explores possible complications and treatments for a shotgun wound. We all learn something, no one is wronged.

      Let's pick a different scenario. If Cheney had a heart attack, would you be objecting to a diary that discusses heart attacks? Why or why not?
      •  The problem is... (3.33)
        Only the worst possible prognosis was included.

        A CBC article (Canadian) said that sometimes all it takes is tweezers to pull out the pellets.  I'm not suggesting that was the case here, although perhaps it could have been, and perhaps he was just put in the ICU given prominence and security issues.

        Dr. Bernstein has been very fair in her tone in all of her comments.  I just wish there were far more caveats in the post, because it's so speculative and  doomsday-ish in its suggested outcome.

        •  that's not why people go to the ICU (none)
          prominence and security?  

          that's what a private room is for (and guards)

          the ICU is definitely no place for a prominent person or for a bunch of guards standing around

          heaven save us from the people who learned everything they know about medicine from TV!!

        •  Bingo (2.00)
          And that makes Cheny look worse. If this were a diary from a doctor who said, "Just last week a treated a guy who got shot in the face with a shotgun while quail hunting--and he's fine! Hardly a nick on him!" Do you think comments would be a little different? I don't believe it conscious piling on--but it's still hypocritical considering the reaming we rightly gave Frist.

          You didn't do it.

          by Earl on Mon Feb 13, 2006 at 01:42:18 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  The difference is the histories of the patients (none)
            Schiavo's history was quite long, and involved court cases, videos, etc. Frist was commenting on something, i.e. neurological examinations, that was not in his area of expertise. From a few seconds of video he pronounced someone that had been in a coma for years and had a brain stem made of mush (according to her MRI scans) as cognizant of her surroundings.

            The diarist does have direct experience in this area and only states what the normal course of action would be for such an injury. She uses what has been published as face, i.e. 28 guage, 100 feet, shot spread far enough to hit cheek, throat and chest, patient confined to ICU for a significant period of time.

            Big difference.

            You can't even get your facts straight. You keep saying he might have been hit with just one pellet, versus reports that say he was hit in several areas. At best, most of the spread of the shot was in front of him and he just caught the edge of it, only 10-30 pellets. A shotgun at a 100 feet will put the shot deeply into your flesh, period. It could easily fracture thin bones as well, like in the facial structure.

            Have you actually shot anything with a shotgun, Earl? I used to own a 28, and it's a nice little piece for small birds.

            "Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about the things that matter." Dr. ML King, from a jail cell in Birmingham, Alabama in 1963.

            by bewert on Mon Feb 13, 2006 at 03:48:49 PM PST

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            •  Double-barrell 12-guage (none)
              was the gun Dad broke us in with. Single 12-guage for squirrels cuz we could after that, though mostly .22 cuz it was lighter and less scary.

              And they're not facts yet so there's no straight nor narrow to them. My point was, and I think it was pretty clear, that the diagnosis and prognosis could be very different than what is proposed here, making it little more than a guess and having exactly a guess's value, IMO, while it puts Cheney in a bad light. That's is a fair point to make.

              You didn't do it.

              by Earl on Mon Feb 13, 2006 at 04:18:41 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Not facts? (none)
                Read the Incident Report Form for some facts. Note the area of the body that was hit by pellets. A bit more than a single pellet would reach.

                You have anything left to eat after using a 12 on a squirrel? Kind of overkill. We shot them with a 22 from the start. 12's are for pheasant and up, although I used a short barrel one with slugs for deer hunting quite a bit. Figured it was more sporting than a 30.06 or 303 with a scope, as you had to be good enough to get close.

                "Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about the things that matter." Dr. ML King, from a jail cell in Birmingham, Alabama in 1963.

                by bewert on Mon Feb 13, 2006 at 11:04:23 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

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