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  •  Easy there... (none)
    I know that was snark, but there are those of us who were in fraternities that are working hard side by side with you.

    The frat bashing grows wearisome.  Not directed at you, just a statement in general.

    I think I am, therefore I am...I think. - George Carlin

    by ejmw on Tue Feb 14, 2006 at 07:36:20 PM PST

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    •  Another thing... (none)
      People in a college fraternity can probably spell "rapist" correctly. I think you guys are off the hook on this one.
    •  Ever stop to think why? (2.00)
      Frats, even at their best, have a lot going against them.  Above all, they lionize conformity and misogyny.  At their worst, they are little more than date rape clubs.  

      -7.38, -5.90 | "A celibate clergy is an especially good idea, because it tends to suppress any hereditary propensity toward fanaticism." - Carl Sagan

      by Subterranean on Tue Feb 14, 2006 at 09:52:39 PM PST

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      •  Of course (none)
        there are always those that perpetuate the stereotype.

        But I find it incredibly frustrating that people who so often claim to want to break down barriers between people based on various superficial factors still fall victim to lumping people into a group classification based on one aspect of their life such as simply being in a fraternity.

        It's just another form of bigotry.  Carry on with it.  You won't get much resistance here, obviously.  And there are certainly battles that are much more worth fighting.

        I think I am, therefore I am...I think. - George Carlin

        by ejmw on Tue Feb 14, 2006 at 10:10:17 PM PST

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      •  Please be careful with your generalisations, (4.00)
        Some fraternities are bad, some do bad things, but they are not all bad; there are good houses out there. There are a lot of good, hard working Democrats out there who, like emjw, were in fraternities and don't deserve to be insulted by your generalizations. I spent several years of my life in a fraternity, and during that time my non-conformist and feminist beliefs were only strengthened.

        I was introduced to my fraternity through by a friend I met at meeting of my university's Democratic Club. Once I joined the house, I roomed with an incredibly motivated, hard working fellow who organized a multi-campus campaign effort that involved over a hundred students (including myself) going to another state (Nevada) to campaign for Kerry in '04; he is now chair of the state College Democrats caucus.

        Granted, not everyone in my fraternity was a Democrat, but most were free thinkers and none of them were misogynists or rapists.

      •  Not always true. (4.00)
        The frat I was in had several gay members, even though it was in no way a "homosexual frat." We also fought against the national association to allow chapters to go co-ed.

        In fact, if it wasn't for my fraternity, I never would have met the man who ended up proving to me that homosexuality is NOT a choice. (It's hard to believe it's a choice when you have deeply personal conversations with someone who appears to be completely repulsed at HIMSELF for what he is afraid he is becoming.)

        Since then, he was the best man at my wedding, I've named my first born son after him, and his example as an excellent friend and best man has served allowed me to convince most of my relatives that homosexuals are not deviants or perverts. In fact, they can be wonderful human beings, and give the best wedding toast ever.

        BTW, my wife and I would not be married today if it wasn't for the emotional support and guidance of this friend who helped us through some difficult times. When people talk about homosexuality threatening traditional marriage, I just mention that my traditional Catholic marriage never would have happened without the years-long support of my best friend, who happens to be homosexual.

        And this all came about because we met each other through my fraternity. And because my fraternity was tolerant, and accepting of anyone who seemed like a decent guy. (or even a decent gal nowadays.)

        congratulations on your foreskin -- osteriser

        by bartman on Tue Feb 14, 2006 at 11:34:03 PM PST

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        •  Magnificent comment (4.00)
          Thank you for that breath of fresh air. As commented above, best not to generalize. Bush was cruel and sadistic before he ever got into his fraternity.  

          "It's 1776 all over again" -- J.W.P. (after Yogi Berra, in the spirit of Tom Paine)

          by wardlow on Wed Feb 15, 2006 at 01:05:30 AM PST

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        •  I loved your story (none)
          How is your best friend doing, if you don't mind my asking?  Has he come to terms with his sexuality and found a life partner?
          •  Haven't seen him in several years. (none)
            We lost touch a couple of years ago.

            (I had some serious problems with bipolar disorder, and didn't put any effort into maintaining any of my old friendships.....)

            Writing the previous comment actually reminded me that I haven't talked to him in WAY too long, and I should look him up. In fact, I think I'll do it right now....  :)

            congratulations on your foreskin -- osteriser

            by bartman on Wed Feb 15, 2006 at 03:52:49 PM PST

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            •  I understand (none)
              Years ago, I lost touch with my oldest friend for a while because I was going through a bout of depression.  But I looked her up again after a couple of years and we are as close as ever now.  I wish you the same luck!

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